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Andy

Tue Jan 21 2014, 05:12AM

Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874

Hi all
I'm trying to make a system that will give out a electric field in the high voltage range to coupled to things that aren't connected to ground, and draw a signal or power from them.
The setup that I've built so far is the transmitter. It registers on the radio speaker by interrupting the sound, the schematic might be slightly wrong, the place is a nest

Updated schematic, switching pulses are around 100-170v, steady state around 88.5volt, at some frequency, in the above picture were the multimeter terms are connected.

This should be the general theory, you have two plates, the right side one sends a electric field all over the place, but is biased from ground stopping hopefully at ground level from picking up a charge. The left side is the pickup plate that goes to negative voltage compared to ground, swamping out the ground as the plate, with the ac source on the right at one half cycle lowering it.

I think if the waves are like standard waves it should produce this effect, guessing here but if the there is impedance mismatch between the right and left side, so that the bounce back wave is half the frequency or maybe 7th degree, the right side should still radiate its energy, but the left side gets canceled out, make the electric field sweep across the sky, inducing a B field, and have the effect of a electric generator, with counter torque...yadya

F = Id/k
F = q*(E+v*B)
F = qv*B

Having the plate like this seems to channel the field into beams, having a pickup coil in the field should pickup any counter torque that is made. To test the project out will raise a pole with dc voltage of 48 volt and see if the left plate or the coil picks up more amps, otherwise I might need insurance if the power output is to much.

This is the circuit measuring from the top of the induction coil and the top of the capacitor stack is around 10-40volts, when the the electrical switch is working, it drops down to just over 20volt without.
Edited, finally got a example of resonance, added a 10pF cap to the network, and the voltage shoot up over 1kv, pretty sure the signal genny is working, as the MOT high side should be about 0.1H and 10pF is around 500khz, yeppy

, that means connecting from the induction coil to the frequency part will be in the 10kv...measure it latter

The black wire is connected to ground outside,red is the frequency part,yellow is the high voltage part, and blue is the pulsing for high voltage and frequency.

This is using a hex inverter and a series resonator at 500khz, I'm not 100% sure its working, it makes 35volt to 0.2volt on ac with the mutli(negative to mosfet gate), but when siwtched on the volts and arcing on the sparkgap switch is louder, more so than a short.

With the wave from the left side, if the bounce back is 33degrees off, with a time delay of 0.00057seconds and the right side shift the frequency from 500khz to 500,001hz will cancel out every 50 or so wave, still got some more to fix it up, below is the zip of multisim oss data

]wave.zip[/file] , i'm think a cap to ground connected to the transmission line between the two, say 1meter from the left side, and 5 meters from the right(or what 0.00057/10** equals) ......update

Reflection = (ZL - ZS)/(ZL + ZS)

if ZL = 31.5 and ZS = 90 = -0.46degrres with a inductor of 1H from the transmission line to ground should make +0.48degrees and cancel the wave when it reaches the inductor at half way, after half the waves in the transmission line are canceled the next half are aloud to pass, and then the next half get canceled rinse repeat.

Antennas,

These photos are proable taken up a bit of bandwidth, when the my bills payed off might have to donate something.

This should give the movement without the need for the leftside, it could be plates or a rod, depending on the movement the current will go across the sky, and make a coil around it, having a another antenna or rod won't get cut perpendicular to the field if its pointing up, so will have to have nine rods outside in a circle, each rod on the outside will get powered and go around in a circle with the field current doing the same, then a flat coil on the ground should beable to pick up something(high altitude transmitter), to get a decent field going up that high and from this distance I don't know what next.

Thomas W

Tue Jan 21 2014, 07:25AM

Registered Member #3324 Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
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Posts: 1276

Interesting.

I suggest cleaning up those wires a bit, messy wires and MOTs spell disaster in my opinion!

Andy

Tue Jan 21 2014, 07:57AM

Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874

Agreed, I'm not planing to connect it to more than 12volt, just using it for a inductor.

Map overview, this is licensed under GNU GPL License and prior art

, the pickup coil in the middle acts like a induction motor drive coil, if
synchronous speed = (120*500,000)/1 = 60,000,000 = 60mhz, with a slip of 60mhz-55mhz/60mhz = 8.3%, if the pickup coil is driven at 55mhz, the income B or H field will generator power, type of inverse from a generator it should be negative slip, as 60mhz is from the electric field generated magnetic field(did that make sense?)
Not sure on what value percent the slip should be.

The values is abit over the top, but it means using less amps and being in resonance with the pickup antenna

Pickup antenna, the caps should shield the antenna at the top from ground, but allow high frequency voltage to pass through to charge up the antenna

I've place a ferrite core with 35 turns, one end is connected to the multimeter the other left floating, its registeing 0.20volts at 0.55meters above the plate. When connecting the other end to the leftside antenna circuit shows 1.27volt. I think I might have to check the circuit, as last time I heard a bang, which could have fried something. The oss has been checked.

setup the plates with the induction coils secondary on to one plate and the primary on the other plate, measuring 21.1volt from the secondary of the induction coil and one term of the 35 turn ferrite. Without the setup connected to ground it was measuring 9.1volt with the oss working, and 8.0volt without, but measuring 0.4volt connected to ground. Without out ground the voltage doesn't climb much reached 15.7 volt. I don't know how it reached 1kv earlier, but I didn't change the setup...

If the volts are 20 at 0.5meters E = V/d there should be 10volt of ac wave in the circuit from plate to plate

modified the circuit abit

Remodifered the circuit
I'll use a NST, its what I've got on hand, with the radio circuit powering the sparkgap, and a MOT to use as a pulse narrow.

This is the pulse former network, it receives a signal from the first transformer, which gets split into two paths, one goes high the other low, and viseverse, the pulses time is controlled by the 100nF cap that is series with the single hex inverter. To protect the hex inverters a diode using forward voltage drop to clamp it to that value(Thanks Dr Slack), in this case 6-8volt microwave diode. The output is sent to a time storage sub circuit that charges up a cap, and slow discharges. This goes to a mosfet which has a following mosfet that switches the second transformer from closed circuit to open, in do so the transformer behaves like a inductor when it goes open circuit the secondary magnetic field disparate, by going into the primary(two mutual inductors charged up, then in a instant it has half the inductance but the same joules in the field)

Andy

Tue Jan 21 2014, 09:23AM

Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874

Information found

Andy

Tue Jan 21 2014, 09:24AM

Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874

Test page

Tryed a test, build this thing, it has a hex inverter to flip the power off when the voltage goes high, with two zeners in series to limit the voltage to 4.55, the mot puts 16volt max onto the two terminals so should switch it.
This should collapse the field in the mot and make a voltage spike, running it the radio makes more noise but the potential on the 35 turns ferrite core is maxing out at 17.5volt

Some numbers, on a striped down version, just using the switch above and a mot, with the two plates, was getting 19.9volt with the switch(averages out to 15) and 12.2 averages out to 8-9 without it. Connecting the thing to ground made 6.8volt max, wiring up ground terminal to the plate above the positive terminal(connected to low side) on the stack of 20 plates got 75volt, the test were done with a multimeter connected from 35turn ferrite and low side of the mot, were a 12volt 1.5amp dc power supply shorts out. The switch is connected to the high side.

I'm guessing the earth cable got removed

after the 1kv limit. Ran into a maor problem which should have seen coming, going to need decent amount of current to charge up the antennas, but at a goal of 300kv isn't going to happen easily.

Going to modified the diagram, and have something like this. The pulses are short duration, for the frequency will have to make the sparkgap have high frequency, only need 600volt +- for 0.5mm gap

Removed all magnetic sources(well major ones), and getting around 35volt(75volt was from the iron rod), don't know what the peak would be, the multimeter takes 2 snap shots per second. Ordered some 32khz crystals, don't think the resonators worked like crystal in this circuit. Being thinking about the leftside antenna, it will hopefully be floating and build a a large negative charge, maybe have a diode to make it pulsed dc on the leftside, will have to change some stuff around though. If this doesn't work, hopefully it will make a good radio system.
Being using dc pulsed will try ac pulsed...Ac maybe not.
Raised the 35 turn ferrite upto 1meter, got max of 24.5volt but averaged 15volt, about half of the 0.55meters, at 0.00058volt pulsating at the current setup is reaching the ionosphere, but probable isn't doing much because of strong electric fields, like main high voltage lines, I don't think I will need to have >volts than them, just a decent amount to add and subtract from them. To extract power will need to have movement of the field, the frequency should allow the field to reach there, but power in power out. Need to do some mediating to work this out and to stop talking rubbish

Following on from above the reading jumped to 42volt average about 20volt, when the welding rods were on the outside the volts wern't much higher than 24volt/15volt. There should be much magnetic field giving off from the setup, the ceramic magnetic would stop a field getting made, so it should be all electric fields.
Added another one to make three the average was 25-31volt, with a peak of 34volt. The numbers are abit meaningless apart from make a base point.

This has reached the highest voltage(76),the top diode makes it dc with the capacitor in series, the bottom diode lets the back voltage of the transformer to collapse. The sim shows flat line, go figure

Manual triggering the sparkgap, the first mosfet is registering 4.5volt max, plus 8volt is about 12volt the dc supply reaches through a MOT, the second mosfet on the right is 0.05V, I'm using two MOT cores with approx 20 turns for primary and secondary, connecting the multimeter between the battery and the negative terminal is registering 29volt with the device connected, with the right side not connected is register 50volt, I might have stuff up the build, or the homemade transformer doesn't have enough turns, I think that if it had the original windings and reached 4.5volt, the V/I/L would make more of a spike. The reading disrepair in less than a second down to 0volt, I really need scope it, rather than guess.

Getting 624volt peak with this setup, higher when the pulse are close together, measuring from battery terminals, and the circuit hasn't broken or got fried

Built a better simulation of what the plasma or ions at 30km would be like, the plates have 47ohms between them with leads going from each plate to a multimeter, its registering 3.7volt peak. The ions won't be that large, but the ohms would be high to compensate.
The rotation of the earth or the solar winds/ jet stream should be like a spinning shaft on a generator, with this device just setting up the field.

Andy

Tue Jan 21 2014, 09:24AM

Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874

Construction

This is pulse former thingy, will need adjusting abit.

Proud Mary

Tue Jan 21 2014, 09:59AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Andy wrote ...

spark pulses are around 100-170v, at some frequency, in real life.

Isn't the minimum breakdown voltage for air at standard atmospheric pressure 327 V in real life? (Paschen's Law)

Andy

Tue Jan 21 2014, 04:46PM

Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874

Was meaning the voltage were in the schematic the wire are connected, from the induction coil and the oscillator

Andy

Wed Jan 22 2014, 08:50AM

Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874

Hi I was wondering whats wrong with this setup

This is the diagram, and i've built it like this

Cheers

Proud Mary

Wed Jan 22 2014, 10:19AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Andy wrote ...

Hi I was wondering whats wrong with this setup

This is the diagram, and i've built it like this

Cheers

Have you got 5V between pins 14 and 7?

What is the voltage on pins 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12?

What is the fundamental frequency of the crystal? Is it designed for series operation?

The layout is so untidy that even if all the parts are correctly specified and wired, the circuit still might not work because of interactions between sprawling wires. Oscillator wiring should always be as short and direct and stable as possible.

Breadboards are a collection of dry joints waiting to happen. Solder things neatly together on a proper base and many more of your circuits will work - or it will at least be possible to find out why they don't. Neat, robust, layout is at the heart of good electronics practice.

Lastly, it isn't fair on others to ask them for comment on a higgeldy-piggeldy jumble of wires that no one can be expected to make head or tail of.

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