CERN antigravity experiment / General Science and Electronics / Forums

Forums

4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics

« Previous topic | Next topic »

CERN antigravity experiment

1 2 3 next

Move Thread

LAN_403

Conundrum

Sat Dec 07 2013, 10:40AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Hmm. So there may be hope for one of my theories after all.
I suggested way back in 2009 that a possible fix for the non existent dark matter was dipolar gravity, ie on cosmological scales antimatter exerted a large scale force causing the Universe to expand exponentially.

At small scales it could exhibit detectable antigravity effects that would be possible to detect, in fact one possible theory I suggested in 2009 that one explanation for Dr. Potklentkov's experimental results was short lived trapping of positron anti-Cooper pairs within the superconducting lattice of the HTSC leading to a detectable drop in gravity above the experiment.
In this case the reason no-one else saw the same results was the differences in fabrication technique of the disks, and as such the effect didn't materialise although one group did report other effects.
EDIT:

Later experiments such as Dr. Martin Tajmar's gravitomagnetic London moment experiment confirmed something strange happens inside a superconducting disk spinning at high speed which violates CoE and suggests new physics.

EDIT: No current replication BUT the experiment is very complex and the effect Prof. Tajmar was seeing could have come from several sources including the superfluid helium 3 used.

Its possible, of course we will have to wait and see.

-A

BigBad

Sat Dec 07 2013, 01:42PM

Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600

My understanding is that the supercondutor-based gravitomagnetic London moment experiment was not confirmed by later experiments.

Ash Small

Sat Dec 07 2013, 02:07PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Conundrum wrote ...

I suggested way back in 2009 that a possible fix for the non existent dark matter was dipolar gravity, ie on cosmological scales antimatter exerted a large scale force causing the Universe to expand exponentially.

While I also doubt the existence of 'dark matter', I'm of the opinion that the forces responsible for the expansion of the universe are more to do with the electromagnetic repulsuve forces within plasmas, which are far stronger than gravity.

Most of the matter in the universe is plasma, so there is plenty of it.

Uspring

Sat Dec 07 2013, 05:28PM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

It's dark energy not dark matter, which is thought of causing the expansion of the universe.

If this experiment would show gravitational repulsion, it would deal a devastating blow to general relativity, which only makes sense if the equivalence principle holds.
This states, that inertial and gravitational masses are the same. Antimatter definitely has positive inertial mass. Negative gravitational mass would violate it.

I don't believe the gravitational effects of a few positrons can be measured at all. For a measurable force you need kg's of them. To measure the effect of gravity on antimatter is much easier, although difficult enough.

Ash Small

Sat Dec 07 2013, 06:22PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Uspring wrote ...

It's dark energy not dark matter, which is thought of causing the expansion of the universe.

According to 'Dark Fluid' theory, dark matter and dark energy are one and the same thing

Personally, I don't buy any of it. We know there are repulsive forces in the universe already that may well be capable of driving the expansion. Plasmas are expanding all the time. The 'Solar Winds', etc are features of this phenomena. Why do we need to invent all this 'invisible stuff'?

Uspring

Sat Dec 07 2013, 07:02PM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

In my personal ranking on exoticity dark fluid theory is higher up on the scale than dark matter or energy. DFT just replaces the dark matter puzzle by the puzzle on how or why to modify the laws of gravitation.
But I must confess, that I'm not too literate in cosmology. I don't think repulsive forces work too well in explaining the universe's expansion. It is space itself that expands. How would you push space?

Ash Small

Sat Dec 07 2013, 07:44PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Uspring wrote ...

In my personal ranking on exoticity dark fluid theory is higher up on the scale than dark matter or energy. DFT just replaces the dark matter puzzle by the puzzle on how or why to modify the laws of gravitation.
But I must confess, that I'm not too literate in cosmology. I don't think repulsive forces work too well in explaining the universe's expansion. It is space itself that expands. How would you push space?

Well, my opinion is that if they have to look for extra 'energy', they should try measuring the electromagnetic energy stored in those massive swirling clouds of 'space plasma'. The cosmos is full of electromagnetic energy, why do we need to 'invent' more?

Conundrum

Sun Dec 08 2013, 08:36AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Makes sense, I am not a theoretical cosmologist but from simple calculations unless antimatter has an enormous antigravity effect then the maths simply don't add up.
This is part of the reason why I theorised that the force is inverse to normal gravity ie over large distances it increases exponentially where normal gravity decreases by the same magnitude...
In fact this would possibly also explain some of the observations of anomalous quasars if antimatter/matter gravitational interactions were responsible for the enormous luminosity.

Ash Small

Sun Dec 08 2013, 11:58AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Conundrum wrote ...

Makes sense, I am not a theoretical cosmologist but from simple calculations unless antimatter has an enormous antigravity effect then the maths simply don't add up.
This is part of the reason why I theorised that the force is inverse to normal gravity ie over large distances it increases exponentially where normal gravity decreases by the same magnitude...
In fact this would possibly also explain some of the observations of anomalous quasars if antimatter/matter gravitational interactions were responsible for the enormous luminosity.

I'd suggest that the 'enormous luninosity' is more of an electro-magnetic phenomenon than 'gravitational interactions'. (although matter-antimatter 'annihalation' would presumably result in the release of some light)

Photons are, after all, electromagnetic energy.

We've only just started 'measuring' the potential gradient between us and the sun, and even NASA says that the Earth's poles and the sun's poles 'switch' due to 'some unexplained external mechanism', when we all know, from basic electric motor theory', that this can only happen when subjected to an 'alternating external field'. Why do we need to 'invent' this 'new science'?

Uspring

Mon Dec 09 2013, 10:27AM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

Ash Small wrote:

Well, my opinion is that if they have to look for extra 'energy', they should try measuring the electromagnetic energy stored in those massive swirling clouds of 'space plasma'. The cosmos is full of electromagnetic energy, why do we need to 'invent' more?

You'd need extreme amounts of energy to account for the missing mass needed to e.g. explain the rotational speed of the outer arms of galaxies. Energy is very light (m=E/c^2) and astronomers can't find it in the required amounts.

1 2 3 next

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob