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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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GM tube woes, help needed :(

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Pinkamena
Thu Oct 10 2013, 08:25PM Print
Pinkamena Registered Member #4237 Joined: Tue Nov 29 2011, 02:49PM
Location:
Posts: 117
Hi everyone.

I've got a Geiger-Müller tube that I can't seem to act like I want it to. First, the schematic. It's very simple:

1381432575 4237 FT0 Geiger


Now, as a gamma photon passes through the GM tube (got a Cs-137 sample providing about 10 counts/s), it will short out, and I should read about 500 * 220/10220 = 10.7V. My problem here, is that I read closer to 50V! I am certain the oscilloscope is showing the correct value, and both resistors are the correct value, checked with independent multimeters. My HV supply is providing exactly 500V, and I have attempted to replace the GM tube.

Nothing fixes it! I've got no more ideas left. What could be wrong?
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radhoo
Thu Oct 10 2013, 09:28PM
radhoo Registered Member #1938 Joined: Sun Jan 25 2009, 12:44PM
Location: Romania
Posts: 701
What do you measure if you just short the tube's connectors with a short wire, instead of waiting for the radiation induced pulse?
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Pinkamena
Thu Oct 10 2013, 09:31PM
Pinkamena Registered Member #4237 Joined: Tue Nov 29 2011, 02:49PM
Location:
Posts: 117
Then I measure the expected 10.7 volts! It's all very mysterious.
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BigBad
Thu Oct 10 2013, 10:36PM
BigBad Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600
First, let me say I know absolutely nothing about GM tubes; but perhaps the tube has leaked a bit and so is constantly conducting.

50 v would be about the voltage drop I'd expect to get from an arc of some kind...

You could try putting a low voltage across it, perhaps it will stop conducting all the time, but maybe the tube is dud and cannot be salvaged.

Oh wait: "I have attempted to replace the GM tube. " dunno unless there's a bad batch or something
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Patrick
Fri Oct 11 2013, 03:33AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
can you post a pic of the o-scope pic?

i wonder if the capacitance of the GM tube is upping the voltage past what your DC voltage divider math predicts.
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Pinkamena
Fri Oct 11 2013, 08:31AM
Pinkamena Registered Member #4237 Joined: Tue Nov 29 2011, 02:49PM
Location:
Posts: 117
Patrick wrote ...

can you post a pic of the o-scope pic?

i wonder if the capacitance of the GM tube is upping the voltage past what your DC voltage divider math predicts.

Will do when I get the chance. The GM tube has a capacitance of about 3pF.
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Shrad
Fri Oct 11 2013, 09:26AM
Shrad Registered Member #3215 Joined: Sun Sept 19 2010, 08:42PM
Location:
Posts: 780
or maybe your setup reacts to the radiation, like a transistor or something in the PSU

is everything shielded well enough? I guess a simple plastic case transistor would react under radiation, no?
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Proud Mary
Fri Oct 11 2013, 09:32AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Does the GM tube have a type number and a datasheet? This is the place to start.
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Uspring
Fri Oct 11 2013, 12:18PM
Uspring Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711
The anode of the tube has a capacitance by itself. When the tube fires, this is discharged into the 220k resistor. Whether this is a viable explanation depends on the size of the capacitance and on the duration of the discharge.

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Pinkamena
Fri Oct 11 2013, 03:27PM
Pinkamena Registered Member #4237 Joined: Tue Nov 29 2011, 02:49PM
Location:
Posts: 117
Shrad wrote ...

or maybe your setup reacts to the radiation, like a transistor or something in the PSU

is everything shielded well enough? I guess a simple plastic case transistor would react under radiation, no?

The radiation is not nearly intense enough for the electronics to get affected in any measurable way.

Proud Mary wrote ...

Does the GM tube have a type number and a datasheet? This is the place to start.

It's called ZP1200, but there's no datasheets on it.

Uspring wrote ...

The anode of the tube has a capacitance by itself. When the tube fires, this is discharged into the 220k resistor. Whether this is a viable explanation depends on the size of the capacitance and on the duration of the discharge.

I guess that makes sense. Not sure how I would fix it.

Anyways, I worked around the problem by replacing the 220k resistor with a 220k varistor, and reading the signal out at a varistor value that fit. So consider this problem solved!
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