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Nuclear near miss

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Conundrum

Sat Sept 21 2013, 12:23PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Scary thought, if that switch had a tin whisker then the world might be a very different place now.

Discuss.
-A

Patrick

Sun Sept 22 2013, 03:45AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

yeah, but 3 of 4 safety features failed, only that crappy switch prevented a megaton shot... thats scary...

That being said, i still think an enemy should fear Americas weapons more than americans should fear our weapons...

Andy

Sun Sept 22 2013, 06:39AM

Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874

so the chain of command

The engineer who installed the red phone
^
President
^
General
^
Lt General
^
lieutenant
^
Major
^
Private

Props

Conundrum

Sun Sept 22 2013, 11:34AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Actually it would be more likely a thermonuclear fizzle due to the timings being off, but still 1+ kilotons would have done some substantial damage.
Depending on factors like the angle of impact, damage to the bomb when it was dislodged from the aircraft and whether the guy on the assembly line making the charges had an off day or not.

tobias

Sun Sept 22 2013, 12:22PM

Registered Member #1956 Joined: Wed Feb 04 2009, 01:22PM
Location: Jersey City
Posts: 172

Someone would have blamed someone else anyways...

Patrick

Sun Sept 22 2013, 09:16PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Conundrum wrote ...

Actually it would be more likely a thermonuclear fizzle due to the timings being off, but still 1+ kilotons would have done some substantial damage.

really? the article seemed to imply (i thought) that the normal firing circuits would have gone off as if it had been deliberately dropped on Moscow, if not for that lonely switch.

Over Thule and Palomares Spain, there were weapons involved in crashes, in which the HE did scatter the radioactive core all over, but there wasnt even a fizzle. I thought by design, this was to be the worst case for a inactive weapon in an accident.
And a mere 600k yards^3 of radioactive dirt....

Conundrum

Sun Sept 22 2013, 10:49PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Google "Two point safe". Specific things have to happen in the right order such as the neutron generator going off at the right point in the core implosion, the tritium being injected into the pit, etc.

Patrick

Mon Sept 23 2013, 04:42AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Conundrum wrote ...

Google "Two point safe". Specific things have to happen in the right order such as the neutron generator going off at the right point in the core implosion, the tritium being injected into the pit, etc.

but if the two-point-safe methodology was correctly working, then the single switch wouldnt have been able to set off even a fizzle, right?

Conundrum

Mon Sept 23 2013, 05:20AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Well, the accident in Palomares, Spain proved that mere impact with the ground can set off the HE components in these.

The neutron generator(s) are likely not to go off as they are based on a vacuum tube (hollow cathode diode) with beryllium and require very specific voltages and currents to generate a neutron pulse.
The early ie Fat Man style polonium/beryllium generators are crushed by the implosion itself so unless this occurs just right then no instant sunshine.

I did read somewhere that the UK's Trident missile warheads are of an inferior design than the US ones due to compromises made to get more warheads on each missile and could go off by accident in the wrong conditions as the implosion system is only one point safe.
ie all the wires for the EBWD's run through the same junction so a piece of electrified shrapnel piercing this from say an explosion on the second stage could result in instant sunshine though likely not a full yield thankfully.
Another potential disaster scenario is that heat from a missile propellant fire could cause the electronics that arm the warhead(s) to malfunction and complete most if not all of the detonation sequence.

-A

Patrick

Mon Sept 23 2013, 08:22AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

well this is a useful article :

and i didnt know the PALs were so late and unevenly applied to the US arsenal. i knew the russians didnt have affirmative weapon controls. so in the cuban missle crisis, there were high speed PT like boats that had russian sailors, who could release several tactical nukes on there own. though it took a direct spoken or written order from a specific commanding officer.

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