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My first SGTC! + improving efficiency, reducing losses

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Kiwihvguy
Mon May 13 2013, 10:48AM Print
Kiwihvguy Registered Member #3395 Joined: Thu Nov 04 2010, 08:42AM
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 193
Hi all,

I recently just finished making and testing my first SGTC ever! It took 6 long months of hard work and lots of money but it paid off very nicely.

While we were having the final test of the coil at my mentor's workshop the other day, we got first light which was a huge achievement for me. However, at the time the tank circuit power supply was a 15kV 30mA NST - so only 450VA of power and we got an average 30cm streamer off the toroid. My calculations program 'Tesla Map' says that the maximum streamer length is 92cm so there's obviously a big room for improvement.

It is known that SGTCs are quite lossy primarily because of the spark gap where a lot of the circulating current is lost as heat, light and sound energy. My SG is just two bolts opposing each other with a puny fan from a microwave oven so it probably doesn't quench very well.

My tank capacitor is the classic beer bottle Leyden jar version and glass as a dielectric medium is quite lossy as well. I suppose it all adds up.

Last night, I did some testing with a similar 15kV 60mA NST hooked up in parallel with the 30mA and phased correctly for a 1.3 kVA input.

So, here's what I can do to improve the performance:
- Get some Maxwell RF pulse capacitors to replace the existing beer bottle bank
- Use litz wire in the primary tank circuitry (a nightmare!)
- Replace the spark gap with an asynchronous RSG
- Or replace the current fan with a vacuum cleaner motor

Basically it all boils down to money so I won't be making any improvements soon as I am low on budget and college is quite busy.

Here are the specifications:

2x Italian F.A.R.T NSTs both 15kV, one 30mA and one 60mA
Tank capacitance = 15.2 nF
Secondary coil turns = 1,012
Secondary coil wire gauge = 27 awg / 28 swg / 0.375mm dia
Secondary coil capacitance = 6.15 pF
Secondary inductance = 14.4 mH

Toroid capacitance ~ 14.2 pF (Tesla map assumes a perfect toroid but I used ducting)

Resonant frequency 350 kHz


I would love to hear some professional advice from some of the experienced coiler legend and I would be very privileged to hear from you! Any help is appreciated if you can share your experiences with me.

Regards,
J

1368442121 3395 FT0 Minitesla Night Run

1368442121 3395 FT0 Img 1732

1368442121 3395 FT0 Img 1733

1368442122 3395 FT0 Final Testing In Mentors Workshop
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Shrad
Mon May 13 2013, 10:57AM
Shrad Registered Member #3215 Joined: Sun Sept 19 2010, 08:42PM
Location:
Posts: 780
breakout point + aluminium tape over the toroid to flatten the surface, for what I can see
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Kiwihvguy
Tue May 14 2013, 01:25AM
Kiwihvguy Registered Member #3395 Joined: Thu Nov 04 2010, 08:42AM
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 193
Shrad wrote ...

breakout point + aluminium tape over the toroid to flatten the surface, for what I can see

Does this decrease the amount of corona discharge from the peaks on the toroid? That would make sense because there would be a higher electric charge density on the break out point.

Any other advice from from the professionals about my suggestions to improve it? I would love to hear from you.
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Blitzorn
Tue May 14 2013, 01:58AM
Blitzorn Registered Member #2128 Joined: Thu May 21 2009, 03:17AM
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 58
That is a real nice-looking first coil - similar to mine, a bit tidier of a build though (mine was quite rushed). Congrats, and beautiful work! I'm relatively new at this so don't take me on my word - but since nobody else is responding, I'll throw in what comes to mind...

1. It may help your output a little to add a power factor correction capacitor in parallel with your NST's primary winding (on the mains side). This rectifies some of the power losses due to the desync of voltage and current phase from high inductance in the NST. Make sure to use a run-type capacitor. I can't tell from the pictures if you have already included one in your design.

2. Moving away from saltwater caps is probably one of the bigger changes to improve power and performance - an appropriate MMC will simply perform better than the beer bottles. You already seem to know that, but it's worth stressing the lossiness of glass. You'll thank yourself later for cutting your capacitor's mass down by a factor of ten or twenty as well. My first coil used a gargantuan saltwater cap and it suffered from low output.

3. Check your wiring. Looks like you used good quality wires, so any upgrade at this point is probably not going to make a tangible difference, but HV grade wire is another possible source of losses. Junctions should be soldered to maximize contact and keep the risk of arcing to a minimum. Looks like you did a pretty good job with the junctions too but just saying, bad joins may be lossy. Make sure connections are as short as possible, and that there aren't too many kinks or sharp corners. Minimize interfaces between different kinds of conductors in your wiring (tiny effect, compared to other stuff, but if you're min-maxing...).

4. Like shrad said, smooth surface and/or a specific breakout point will help to get all your uber-high-voltage charge running down the same streamer - smoothing reduces corona discharge since it reduces the amount of bleed-off, and specific breakout point is essentially the opposite, creating a region where charge may leave the surface more easily. It might sound like these would cancel each other out, but they don't have to. Imagine a bucket full of little holes. When you throw water in it little squirts go out in all directions. Now imagine plugging up all the little holes but one, and making it wider. Throw water in it, and you get a pronounced, directed jet of water. There's your power.

5. Tune it some more! If you were very thorough with your tuning then of course, this isn't a big issue. I don't know if you were able to test the capacitance of your primary array with a good multimeter, but those saltwater buggers are hard to estimate, and sometimes when you run them a little bit their performance changes. Software is great, but ultimately the models are only as good as their fidelity to phenomena, and every real-world situation is unique!

6. Connect your other NST, silly! ;D

7. The rotary spark gap, or even better quenching on your current gap. Sounds to me like your current fan is totally inadequate for proper ventilation, even just duct taping a shopvac hose on it and letting that puppy rip would be a step in the right direction. You really want it to quench as fast as it possibly can.

Hope I was able to help - anyone with more experience or knowledge feel free to overwrite my suggestions but I think they're mostly pertinent!
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Kiwihvguy
Wed May 15 2013, 05:41AM
Kiwihvguy Registered Member #3395 Joined: Thu Nov 04 2010, 08:42AM
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 193
Blitzorn wrote ...

That is a real nice-looking first coil - similar to mine, a bit tidier of a build though (mine was quite rushed). Congrats, and beautiful work! I'm relatively new at this so don't take me on my word - but since nobody else is responding, I'll throw in what comes to mind...

1. It may help your output a little to add a power factor correction capacitor in parallel with your NST's primary winding (on the mains side). This rectifies some of the power losses due to the desync of voltage and current phase from high inductance in the NST. Make sure to use a run-type capacitor. I can't tell from the pictures if you have already included one in your design.

2. Moving away from saltwater caps is probably one of the bigger changes to improve power and performance - an appropriate MMC will simply perform better than the beer bottles. You already seem to know that, but it's worth stressing the lossiness of glass. You'll thank yourself later for cutting your capacitor's mass down by a factor of ten or twenty as well. My first coil used a gargantuan saltwater cap and it suffered from low output.

3. Check your wiring. Looks like you used good quality wires, so any upgrade at this point is probably not going to make a tangible difference, but HV grade wire is another possible source of losses. Junctions should be soldered to maximize contact and keep the risk of arcing to a minimum. Looks like you did a pretty good job with the junctions too but just saying, bad joins may be lossy. Make sure connections are as short as possible, and that there aren't too many kinks or sharp corners. Minimize interfaces between different kinds of conductors in your wiring (tiny effect, compared to other stuff, but if you're min-maxing...).

4. Like shrad said, smooth surface and/or a specific breakout point will help to get all your uber-high-voltage charge running down the same streamer - smoothing reduces corona discharge since it reduces the amount of bleed-off, and specific breakout point is essentially the opposite, creating a region where charge may leave the surface more easily. It might sound like these would cancel each other out, but they don't have to. Imagine a bucket full of little holes. When you throw water in it little squirts go out in all directions. Now imagine plugging up all the little holes but one, and making it wider. Throw water in it, and you get a pronounced, directed jet of water. There's your power.

5. Tune it some more! If you were very thorough with your tuning then of course, this isn't a big issue. I don't know if you were able to test the capacitance of your primary array with a good multimeter, but those saltwater buggers are hard to estimate, and sometimes when you run them a little bit their performance changes. Software is great, but ultimately the models are only as good as their fidelity to phenomena, and every real-world situation is unique!

6. Connect your other NST, silly! ;D

7. The rotary spark gap, or even better quenching on your current gap. Sounds to me like your current fan is totally inadequate for proper ventilation, even just duct taping a shopvac hose on it and letting that puppy rip would be a step in the right direction. You really want it to quench as fast as it possibly can.

Hope I was able to help - anyone with more experience or knowledge feel free to overwrite my suggestions but I think they're mostly pertinent!

Thanks for the reply Blitzorn!

I think I will investigate into the NST PFC cap although I didn't have clue what you were taking about when you mentioned 'current phase' and 'high inductance' (I know what these things are, but not in that context). The recommended PFC cap size

I will get some aluminium flashing tape and smooth out that toroid as much as possible. I don't I need to bother wwith making an MMC when I can get these nice Maxwell caps: Link2

Those nice bastards will be indestructible with my coil if I grab 3 and parallel them up because I already have 90mA input to the tank circuit and my bottle cap which is around 15 nF is probably a bit small.

My mentor and I tuned the hell out of it, so it's most likely as good as the tuning will get. The other NST is connected, so I have a 15kV 30mA and a 15kV 60mA Italian F.A.R.T (Fabbrica Apparecchi Radioelettrici Treviso, not the release of methane!) in parallel to get 15kV 90mA, so 1.3 kVA total power input smile

I reckon at some point I'll remove the fan and put a vacuum cleaner motor in there. Only problem it's so loud, it's almost too loud for the coil. This coil certainly isn't an application where the noise of that motor won't be a problem!

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. Still a little disappointed that I haven't had some of the legends like Steve Ward or whatever comment because I've always wanted to talk to them seeing as this is my first coil and a very special moment!

Also I couldn't help not noticing your thread about your second coil. Your story was so inspirational I had to include it in my final report wink
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