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Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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stacking coils together

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Andre
Wed Jan 09 2013, 11:14PM
Andre Registered Member #6921 Joined: Wed Sept 26 2012, 07:47PM
Location:
Posts: 109
any idea how to find out if the core is saturating at 20KV? or how can I find out how much the core can handle? (I mean formulas)
just curiosity cause I had used a smaller core with smaller coil and add them up together same way as here and I can get to 14KV each coil can output 7KV so it adds up.
so I'm trying to find out why this would not add up, I did try putting a diode in between and the KV went up to 20KV with the 2 coils in series. but without the diode the output is 5KV.
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Proud Mary
Thu Jan 10 2013, 12:00AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Maybe you have excessive volt-seconds product in the primary and it is saturating the core.
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Ash Small
Thu Jan 10 2013, 12:07AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Andre wrote ...

any idea how to find out if the core is saturating at 20KV? or how can I find out how much the core can handle? (I mean formulas)

Maybe measure how much current the primary is drawing?

Do you have a datasheet for the cores?....You can't really tell how hot they are if they are under oil.
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Antonio
Thu Jan 10 2013, 12:55AM
Antonio Registered Member #834 Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644
By the picture it looks as everything is under oil. Ok, as the insulation doesn't look adequate for 20 kV in air. To reach 20 kV is quite easy with minimum care with insulation. But 40 kV is a different issue. Is the voltage divider under oil too? Is it really working correctly with high voltage? Corona at the HV end and leakage through support structures, and even the oil, may cause false measurements. As already mentioned the 500 M load may be excessive for the system. 25 kHz in so large coils may also result in large losses due to leakage inductances and parasitic capacitances, but if one coil alone works this is probably ok. Note that the perforated boards in the assembly may not have enough resistance and may be loading the system.
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Carl Pugh
Thu Jan 10 2013, 04:34AM
Carl Pugh Registered Member #1064 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2007, 05:04PM
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Posts: 42
Try spreading the primary over the full length of the core.
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Andre
Thu Jan 10 2013, 04:42PM
Andre Registered Member #6921 Joined: Wed Sept 26 2012, 07:47PM
Location:
Posts: 109
Carl Pugh wrote ...

Try spreading the primary over the full length of the core.
I did try that with a different core, and I got the same results,

ok Antonio, I will build new coils and try with more resistant, that's the only thing I have not tried, the coils I had they both burn already,
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Shrad
Fri Jan 11 2013, 10:06AM
Shrad Registered Member #3215 Joined: Sun Sept 19 2010, 08:42PM
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Posts: 780
which oil type is this?

have you boiled it t oget rid of the water?
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Electra
Sun Jan 13 2013, 12:26AM
Electra Registered Member #816 Joined: Sun Jun 03 2007, 07:29PM
Location:
Posts: 156
I think the problem is your turns ratio

If your turns Ratio is 3200/30 = 106.7

24v x 106.7 = 2560.8v per secondary

5kv total would be about what you would expect.

The higher peek voltage you were reading could possibly be down to switching spikes during the off time.

Your 500M ohm resistor even at 40kv would just consume 3.2W
if your transformer and driver is capable of more than that it shouldn’t be a problem for reading dc voltage.
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Tony Matt
Sun Jan 13 2013, 02:17AM
Tony Matt Registered Member #3700 Joined: Sat Feb 19 2011, 12:59PM
Location:
Posts: 107
Andre',

Electra kill the question....

Yes, the tranformer can not provide more than 2560 v ac per secondary windind
The primary has 30 turns, and receive 24V. So the voltage/turn ratio is 24/30 = 0.8V/t
S0ooo the voltage in each secondary will be o.8 x 3200 =2560V ....

Disclose the cross section of the core.
What is switching freqwuency ?
The total number of turns in each coil?
How many turns in each layer?
How many layers on each coil?
What material and thichness of insulation between layers ?
HOW IS THE INSULATION BETWEEN THE COIL AND CORE ?
Pictures taken at dark room show corona ??
Regards
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Antonio
Sun Jan 13 2013, 01:30PM
Antonio Registered Member #834 Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644
Quite obvious question that nobody saw before. Could be a flyback power supply. As the driving circuit was not mentioned, all the thread is just guesswork...
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