Thorium Plasma Batteries / General Science and Electronics / Forums

Forums

4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics

« Previous topic | Next topic »

Thorium Plasma Batteries

1 2 next

Move Thread

LAN_403

Chip Fixes

Thu Aug 09 2012, 05:33AM

Registered Member #3781 Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
Location:
Posts: 701

I don't know if anyone else has done any research into these or knows about the controversy that surrounds them but I figured it would be an interesting topic to talk about since it has not been posted to the forum yet. Anyway, here is an introductory article:

Basically, the government can condemn patents to the Invention Secrecy Act if they threaten National Security OR if they will drastically alter the nations economy. Since TPB's would alter the nations economy (lasting ~100 years on a single charge) it looks as though they, as well as their inventors, have been pretty much wiped off the planet.

Furthermore, solar panels with a 20% or greater efficiency can't be made because of the Secrecy Act. So much for alternative energy. I guess we'll be using oil until it's going to lose the government more money than a solar panel that's 20% efficient. :P

Anyway, this is the closest thing I could find to a schematic:

(Sorry, nothing on what the numbers correspond to). It was taken from this website:

Discuss!

Carbon_Rod

Thu Aug 09 2012, 07:01AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

Is this a conversation about how there can be several patents related to buttered toast?

Or... how energy concerns manipulating markets prevent physics from working in your municipality?
A $1 fresnel lens can "improve" solar-cell performance, but the cells operational lifespan drops along with any economic incentives to build the apparatus.

Consumer nuclear batteries for watches were rare, but did exist in North America at one time. Several decades ago I watched someone slowly die from a metastasized malignant cancer that started on the wrist (note that medical treatment at the time was much less effective than today.) It took about 3.5 years of constant exposure to that single area to start the problems (a negligible circular red "burn" appeared one day). Apparently the battery in this mechanism lasted around 8.5 years... outliving the person who bought it.
IIRC some people formed a FUD mob last time I mentioned this because no one could find a clear reference on Google..... Good luck finding anything besides references of unlucky people finding "warm" RTG artifacts.

You can probably extrapolate my opinion of these types of technologies in consumer hands, and having them once more certified "Fukushima safe" by a commercial interest.

Conundrum

Thu Aug 09 2012, 07:34AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Yeah, this is indeed a problem.
Rumour has it that it is quite feasible to make a 10mW tritium power cell but you'd need about a kilocurie's worth of tritium which would be ridiculously expensive (around $30K) and if broken would be extremely dangerous.

What we need is an isotope which has a very long life (ie K40) but with an isomer-like transition so the decay can be "sped up" inside the battery.
At the moment Ta-180 and In-113 look promising, however the gamma rays generated are much too dangerous to make this suitable for anything except military applications.

Re. solar cells, I did come up with a way to modify broken LCD panels by replacing the front optics with a simple wavelength shifting filter, allowing these useful parts to be recycled into solar collectors.
Then the entire edge of the panel can be covered in cells, which is a lot cheaper than making a large panel.

Prior art:- "Star Trek:The Next Generation", that episode where Wesley nearly gets offed because he broke a greenhouse.

Steve Conner

Thu Aug 09 2012, 07:36AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

The introductory article is complete horseshit.

To give one example, anyone who says that a nuclear battery gives off the same amount of radiation as a cellphone loses my credibility, because they don't understand the difference between non-ionising and ionising radiation, or are deliberately glossing it over. Executive summary: Nuclear things give you cancer, cellphones don't. The anti cellphone lobby don't help matters by glossing over the difference in the other direction.

To give another, a battery that "lasts 100 years on a single charge" would make the energy crisis worse, because you would have to find 100 years worth of energy to charge it up. Of course I'm deliberately confusing a normal rechargeable battery with a radioisotope generator here, but the article makes this very same mistake.

Summing up, for these batteries to live up to their claims, they would probably have to be some sort of nuclear device. A return to the 1950s Popular Mechanics promise of an "atomic pile in every home". I guess I am glossing over the difference between decay and fission, but whatever.

Conundrum

Thu Aug 09 2012, 07:41AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

This does raise the possibility of a "rechargeable nuclear battery".
In principle if an isomer existed that could be charged up by bombarding it with gamma rays of wavelength N, then triggered by longer wavelength X-rays then the isotope could be stable for decades until used.
Suggest something superheavy such as E-122 if it has a metastable isotope, as this would be possible to make in a particle accelerator at least in small quantities, by colliding calcium with plutonium thin films.

Thomas W

Thu Aug 09 2012, 09:09AM

Registered Member #3324 Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276

if only we could have such things invented in countrys other then america... then mabye we could have some real progress in this world, if i was developing it, i would try get enough money to pay it off + living expences and then just put all the info accross the web on how its made in multiple locations along with irl on memorysticks, paper and such so it deffinatly gets out, hey i can get a different job i guess, but i think forwarding the worlds future is more important then filling my wallers ;D

Ash Small

Thu Aug 09 2012, 11:36AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Is anyone here able to summarize the principle of how a thorium plasma battery operates?

Thomas W

Thu Aug 09 2012, 11:55AM

Registered Member #3324 Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276

so far this is my conclution of all issues surrounding cheap energy and the oil market:

Internal Programming of the Govenment.

Pinky's Brain

Thu Aug 09 2012, 03:09PM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837

wrote ...

A $1 fresnel lens can "improve" solar-cell performance

1$ is actually quite a lot for the area the lens collects over ... and nothing compared to the cost of the tracking mechanism.

Pinky's Brain

Thu Aug 09 2012, 03:15PM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837

Conundrum wrote ...
with a simple wavelength shifting filter

There is no such thing, there are photoluminscent wavelength shifters being used in solar cell research but making these long lived is far from simple ...

1 2 next

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob