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Proof that society is corrupt to the core.

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LAN_403

Conundrum

Thu Jul 05 2012, 11:31PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Horrible. How can we as a civilised society allow this to happen?

It is actually more efficient given that many of these "hopeless debtors" are otherwise productive individuals for the debts to be frozen in exchange for working for a given company for a contracted fixed period of say ten years on a living wage after which time the original debt and all accrued penalties and fees are dissolved and the credit records erased.

Leaving things as they are just gives more money to Big Finance and the loan companies, meanwhile the debts just increase.

Comments?

Sulaiman

Sat Jul 07 2012, 06:21AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand. Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side! You have paid the price for your lack of vision!

Steve Conner

Sat Jul 07 2012, 10:17AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Taking out a large loan to fund a college degree is not just usury, it's gambling. You're betting that you'll get a good enough job at the end of it to pay back the loan. The way things are nowadays, it's far from certain that the average student of the average college will actually get one.

When a gambling addict loses $300k in the casino and kills himself, I don't hear people saying "Horrible, how can a civilised society allow this to happen?"

When I was a student, the loan available was much smaller, a few thousand pounds, the interest rate was tiny, and you didn't have to start paying it back until your salary got above a certain level.

Carbon_Rod

Sat Jul 07 2012, 11:45AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

The privatized universities can quietly bleed students to pay for "paper" mills. The disconnect between skill market value and the curriculum a person chooses is actually arbitrary.

Popular media will assert "We need more ______, as there is not enough to meet current market demands." Of course, 3000 gullible kids who prefer money to the drudgery of research will sign up for any ______ programs offered. However, the real issue with market manipulation arises when the income of specialized areas are bid down, and ultimately outsourced given foreign market research adapts to compete.

The university & politicians will claim more grants and bursaries will help talented students succeed, but they know full well people can only qualify for a finite number of awards. Ultimately, the money allocated to fix the problems is never claimed by students, and is reallocated into slush funds to grow the "paper" mill.

When the economy is in trouble many senior students will return to study rather than become unemployed, and many people will falsely assume this is a "good" trend. The current media outrage is merely a form of catharsis, and ultimately even faithful meritocrats meet a similar resolve.

Privatized schools shift focus onto student population, profit driven research, and institutional "brands". They will claim there are "solutions" to the "problems", but never admit they can't change what they have become... just another business.

Nik

Mon Jul 09 2012, 04:52AM

Registered Member #53 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:31AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 638

The poor decisions of individuals are not the responsibility of anyone but themselves.

What does need to be done is better research into which fields are projected to need more manpower in the near/far future and have that information passed along to high schools. Right now kids are told they can do anything they want and that's how these educated debt magnets happen. They were told to pick what interested them most not what has a long term chance of keeping them employed and interested.

In the case linked there had to have been other factors then his debt leading to killing himself. A guy with a uni education can figure out for himself that he can take another job until he gets something better in his own field.

dmg

Mon Jul 09 2012, 07:07AM

Registered Member #2628 Joined: Fri Jan 15 2010, 12:23AM
Location:
Posts: 627

Steve Conner wrote ...

Taking out a large loan to fund a college degree is not just usury, it's gambling. You're betting that you'll get a good enough job at the end of it to pay back the loan. The way things are nowadays, it's far from certain that the average student of the average college will actually get one.

Its that sort of thing that made me glad I listened to those who were smarter then me rather then let some foolish pride take over to chase my "dreams". With the rising costs of tuition and little garantee of my wanted profession, its insane to even think about getting a degree.

For that reason, going into trades was probably the greatest decision I've ever done in my life, me bieng 18 and not much cash to start with, last thing I needed was a gaint student debt, to chase after a highly competative engineering position with no garantee of success, and even if I got the job, I find it hard to belive that my salary would compensate for my debt any time soon, and I'm not exactly a patient person by nature either.

Trades are a nice way to secure a job position that is of easy enterance (If you don't mind hard labour and physical work) with minimal educational and financial commitments that can pay just as good as those jobs that require degrees. Better job security too. People will always need an electrician, plumber, mechanic, welders, etc.

a bit off/on topic, while it is up to personal responsibility on your end, you can't help but to also put blame on your mentors for guiding you on that path and forming your way of thought. I was lucky enough to realize otherwise that following my "dreams" instead of facing reality would end up royally fucking me over, I've made my mistakes in highschool, luckly I learned from it rather then repeat them on a much larger level.

Not trying to tell you what to do here, or that you should avoid college like the plague, its just a bit of my personal experience on it and what I concluded observing others. Take from it what you will.

Pinky's Brain

Mon Jul 09 2012, 09:26AM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837

Gambling addicts can declare personal bankruptcy, student debt is for life.

I think all debt except for non recourse collateralized loans should have an expiration date ... something like 10 to 15 years. With penalties for non payments only carrying forward if you are above minimum living income after debt payments.

Carbon_Rod

Mon Jul 09 2012, 09:57AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

@Pinky
In general most people can negotiate "interest relief", loan reduction with government placement (medical grads can get 33% a year cut), and indeed after 12 years a legal ambiguity can open "debt-forgiveness" program options. Note that NO ONE will ever tell you these facts.

A private or "consolidated" bank loan does not have legal shelter, and is thus aggressively pursued by collection's companies. The abuse these companies can impose is legendary, and certainly inhumane if people are unaware of their legal options.

Depends on citizenship, and the country where a debt was incurred.

Patrick

Tue Jul 10 2012, 02:43AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Many kids should have left high school with a diploma and then entered a trade school/trade job from (18-25). like being an electrician or machinist, then after 25 move on to a real career in industry or seek a 4 year degree in electrical or mechanical. The idea that every child should go to college right out of HS is crap indoctrination from the educational industrial complex, at least here in the states where any idiot insider can be on a board of trustees.

These universities are requiring 40% crap classwork the has no merit or value, and yet my parents and I still have to pay for what amounts to expensive daycare for 20 year olds. In America many of the acredited public universities and private diploama mills are simply profiteering, like Enron, Standard oil, the railroads, forest and gold tycoons.

Thats the ugly and the bad, the good news is we can now openly question and deride these adminatrative cowards. Ive seen more and more reports on TV, in the papers, and conversations in public about a growing and deep seeded mistrust of universities, and how they're run and payed for. In the late 90's (when i was 18) you couldnt even whisper discontent of higher education for fear of tar and feather.

Just wait for Sallie Mae to come apart (and it will) here in ther United States... then youll see a population in unrest.

Tetris

Tue Jul 10 2012, 05:56AM

Registered Member #4016 Joined: Thu Jul 21 2011, 01:52AM
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 660

Hasn't it always been corrupt? And people wonder why some people lock themselves out from society... its corrupt at almost every angle...

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