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4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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Pointless endeavor?

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Newton Brawn
Mon Apr 16 2012, 02:59AM
Newton Brawn Registered Member #3343 Joined: Thu Oct 21 2010, 04:06PM
Location: Toronto
Posts: 311
A geometry and voltage gradient problem...

1 - Make a drawing scale 1:10 ( the core will be 10X bigger, the insulation between layers will be 10X thicker, the mag wire diameter wil be 10X bigger. This will you see the gaps and voltages between the turns, between two adjacent layers, between the first layer and the magnetic core, between the last turn and core, between the fist and last turn.

2 - Calculate the max voltage stressing the insulation that is located between two layers.
( if the transformer voltage ratio is 30V per turn, and each layer has 20 turns, the voltage produced by a layer is 600V and between two adjacent layers will be 1200V. Considering the very small amount of air bettwen wire and insulation film I may suggest use TWO polyester (Mylar) 0.1mm thick film to provide the proper insulation between layers. If you consider to wind more turns per layer the insullation thickness shall be resized. Going for more than 30 turn per layer is NOT good practice. )

3 - Calculate the creepage voltage over the insulators as Mylar, polyester PVC, polyetilene, ( the kreepage gradient shall not be more than 600V per mm).

4- Calculate the grad in the air gaps, as last turn and core. It shall be not more than 1.5-2kV per mm.

After winding of the coils a impregnation with Alkid vernish will provide mechanical stability and avoid all coils colapse.

Following these rules a dry transformer can be built and work continuosly for years without problems. The same tansform may be imerse in oil with advantage of beter safe factor



I also agree that the wire shalll NOT be more than #34 AWG. For me the limit is #32AWG Evem with experience in winding coils,


]z_alta_frequencia_- solid_dielectic_grad__maq.pdf[/file]
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Newton Brawn
Mon Apr 16 2012, 03:26AM
Newton Brawn Registered Member #3343 Joined: Thu Oct 21 2010, 04:06PM
Location: Toronto
Posts: 311
Hi Zak,
Here other graphic to help the calculation of creepage insulation.



Regards

Newton
]z_alta_frequencia_-creepage_voltage__maq.pdf[/ file]
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ZakWolf
Mon Apr 16 2012, 04:54AM
ZakWolf Registered Member #3114 Joined: Sat Aug 14 2010, 08:33AM
Location:
Posts: 608
Newton Brawn wrote ...

A geometry and voltage gradient problem...

1 - Make a drawing scale 1:10 ( the core will be 10X bigger, the insulation between layers will be 10X thicker, the mag wire diameter wil be 10X bigger. This will you see the gaps and voltages between the turns, between two adjacent layers, between the first layer and the magnetic core, between the last turn and core, between the fist and last turn.

2 - Calculate the max voltage stressing the insulation that is locate between two layers .
( if the transformer voltage ratio is 30V per turn, and each layer has 20 turns, the voltage produced by a layer is 600V and between two adjacent layers will be 1200V. Considering the very small amount of air bettwen wire and insulation film I may suggest use TWO polyester (Mylar) 0.1mm thick film to provide the proper Insulation between layers. If you consider to wind more turns per layer the insullation thickness shall be resized. Going for more than 30 turn per layer is NOT good practice. )

3 - Calculate the creepage voltage over the insulators as Mylar, polyester PVC, polyetilene, ( the kreepage gradient shall not be more than 600V per mm).

4- Calculate the grad in the air gaps, as last turn and core. It shall be not more than 1.5-2kV per mm.

After winding of the coils a impregnation with Alkid vernish will provide mechanical stability and avoid all coils colapse.

Following these rules a dry transformer can be built and work continuosly for years without problems. The same tansform may be imerse in oil with advantage of beter safe factor



I also agree that the wire shalll NOT be more than #34 AWG. For me the limit is #32AWG Evem with experience in winding coils,




Im confused, creepage insulation, i was just trying to figure out approximate voltage output.

If thats what that is i dont understand, sorry

My plan is 350 turns per layer,17 layers with 40 awg mag wire

i have already made a 3000 turn transformer with 32 awg wire so this should be cake
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Steve Conner
Mon Apr 16 2012, 06:16AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
No. What output voltage the transformer produces is one thing. What voltage it can produce reliably without breaking down is another quite independent thing. Newton is trying to show you how to calculate the second thing.

Self-capacitance is related to the voltage difference between layers, so the disc shape wins twice.
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