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Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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light bulb back emf?

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Alex M
Sun Mar 11 2012, 02:39AM Print
Alex M Registered Member #3943 Joined: Sun Jun 12 2011, 05:24PM
Location: The Shire, UK
Posts: 552
Do filament based light bulbs have any inductance and could they produce back emf if the bulb was pulsed DC via a PWM chip and MOSFET? Does it need a flyback diode or am I way off course?

I don't have a scope so I can't really find out.

Thanks.
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AleSeg
Sun Mar 11 2012, 03:06AM
AleSeg Registered Member #2727 Joined: Tue Mar 09 2010, 02:39PM
Location: Montevideo - Uruguay
Posts: 33
Filament bulbs like any wire have some inductance, but the ratio X/R is very poor, so you don't need free wheel diode if your freq isn't too high and the wires to the bulb aren't too long. You can put a RC snubber in place of the diode, making slower the rise and fall time with good results.
See you
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Steve Maurer
Sun Mar 11 2012, 05:08PM
Steve Maurer Registered Member #133 Joined: Fri Feb 10 2006, 10:27PM
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Posts: 47
A standard 120 V, 60 W light bulb has less than 1 uH of inductance.

Note that a cold light bulb filament can draw more than ten times the current of a hot filament. Make sure that your MOSFET is capable of handling the high inrush current that the cold filament requires, else you could damage the MOSFET.

Steve
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radiotech
Sun Mar 11 2012, 11:56PM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
Some types of metal filament light bulbs exhibited an effect that can be mistaken for
reactance which mess up some instrumentation. It related to dR/dt thermal.
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Alex M
Fri Mar 23 2012, 08:25AM
Alex M Registered Member #3943 Joined: Sun Jun 12 2011, 05:24PM
Location: The Shire, UK
Posts: 552
Thanks for the replys, sorry about getting back late as my internet has been terrible lately (Sky broadband and back-haul problems in my area).

Just one more question, are there any downsides to using a 12v bulb only rated for AC like this on 12v DC?

349227HBO111111M

I mean if they are designed for AC then there will be a period of time where it "sees" 0v across it, which I am thinking might help reduce heating or life-cycle of the bulb. Not sure though.

Any pointers regarding this would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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Ash Small
Fri Mar 23 2012, 09:28AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
The 12V AC is an RMS value, so the average voltage is 12V.

You could (I think) pulse more than 12V DC through it (subject to other points made above regarding resistance and temperature)
as long as the total power doesn't exceed the rated power of the bulb (I think).

Maybe someone more knowledgable than I could clarify this?
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Steve Conner
Fri Mar 23 2012, 10:17AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
None whatsoever, the bulb only cares about the RMS voltage. The waveform can be anything (even DC) as long as it's 12V RMS.

RMS and average are two quite different things, except for pure DC where they're the same.
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Ash Small
Fri Mar 23 2012, 10:41AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Steve Conner wrote ...


RMS and average are two quite different things, except for pure DC where they're the same.

Yes they are. I should have clarified the point a bit better above. The RMS figure is used to calculate average power (as I understand it).
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Steve Conner
Fri Mar 23 2012, 11:14AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
That's right, RMS current (or voltage) is what you use to calculate average power dissipation in a resistive load. It's the "I" in I^2*R and the "V" in "V^2/R".

That is why it has to be RMS, because you're going to square it later. smile
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radiotech
Sat Mar 24 2012, 07:00PM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
For rectified AC Average means 0.636 of peak. The number is used to calibrate
battery chargers and the like, and DC meters read this value.

The proof for electricians is as follows :

That's the number you will write down on your 'bleedin examination paper to get the mark. mad
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