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Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors

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LAN_403

Chip Fixes

Fri Jan 06 2012, 04:10AM

Registered Member #3781 Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
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Posts: 701

I heard about this technology a little while ago, and according to Wiki it seems like a really good thing:

I'm just wondering why we're not pursuing this technology?

Also, putting cost and everything aside, would it be illegal for an "average joe" to build one of these in the US? I'm just wondering

Pinky's Brain

Sat Jan 07 2012, 02:44PM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
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Posts: 837

If you have the couple of billion necessary to build it then you're not an average joe ... and no it wouldn't be illegal, because with billions nothing stays illegal if you want it to be legal.

That said, billionaires aren't lining up because they aren't starry eyed optimists ... the chance that in 2 decades of R&D necessary to get commercial reactor designs ready a combination of solar/thermal and synthetic natural gas will have overtaken it in cost/Watt are non negligible, the chance of demand for power collapsing due to economic collapse are non negligible too ... at the moment there are so many uncertainties on the horizon that the only entities willing to invest in something like this are governments.

Steve Conner

Sat Jan 07 2012, 03:51PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Even governments seem to have trouble seeing beyond vote winners for the next election

A molten salt reactor was operated successfully using uranium as a fuel, and several papers and websites were published on it. You can read those to get a feel for the technology. (separating waste nuclides from the working fluid is one challenge)

Anyway, I'd prefer to see it as demand for power stagnating, due to transition to a sustainable economy. To the megacorps and investors who specialise in big capital items like power stations, that might well be indistinguishable from economic collapse.

2Spoons

Sat Jan 07 2012, 11:21PM

Registered Member #2939 Joined: Fri Jun 25 2010, 04:25AM
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Posts: 615

It wasn't developed commercially because it does not yield plutonium for nuke weapons. Sad but true.

Chip Fixes

Sun Jan 08 2012, 05:36AM

Registered Member #3781 Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
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Ah thanks for the replies, I've done some research and it's actually really interesting

Pinkamena

Tue Feb 14 2012, 03:23PM

Registered Member #4237 Joined: Tue Nov 29 2011, 02:49PM
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It might get big in the future. Norway has plans to pursuit this technology, since they've got access to large quantities of Thorium.

Fulmen

Fri Feb 17 2012, 01:15PM

Registered Member #3883 Joined: Fri May 13 2011, 06:30PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 87

Not a chance. Norway decided long ago not to go for nuclear energy, and there is little to suggest that this will change in the immediate future. Pity, there was a time when we were with the lead pack, but now we have lost all expertise.

The irony of atomic energy is that due to the rising opposition the world is still using really primitive reactors. There are far safer designs available, but lack of funding prevents them from being used. So we can't build new ones and we can't do without, so what do we do? We keep running those stone age plants until they blow.

StridAst

Wed Mar 07 2012, 05:38AM

Registered Member #3623 Joined: Sun Jan 16 2011, 10:13PM
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 11

Something of a necropost here. But I figure this thread isn't too old. There are many useful advantages to thorium reactor designs. However there are some disadvantages. For one, any source of hydrogen that comes in contact with the fluorine based fuel, immediately and quite energetically reacts forming hydrogen fluoride gas. (lithium can also be converted to hydrogen via neutron bombardment as well, but it's less likely to be an issue) There is a serious shortage of things that can contain hydrogen fluoride gas, and still handle the heat and radiation bombardment rigors of a reactor core. One of the most obvious sources of hydrogen is simple water. Now imagine the safety restrictions that you need to engineer and put in place when the entire reactor is surrounded by a water jacket to siphon heat away for power generation. Even using different liquids instead of water to move the heat from point a to point b carries with it a loss of efficiency when you use that liquid to then heat the water to drive the turbines. And one single crack that lets liquid water into the reactor core, would pretty much mean a disaster that would turn your billion dollar reactor into a billion dollar liability.

Granted these issues are quite possible to get around, but when you need to pass stringent safety regulations to build a reactor, it's a lot of extra work.

Kinda makes it hard to compete against the established uranium/plutonium reactor designs. After all, why reinvent the wheel, then spend large amounts of money to convince the right people that this wheel is just as safe as the old wheel, when you can simply go with the flow?

2Spoons

Wed Mar 07 2012, 10:38PM

Registered Member #2939 Joined: Fri Jun 25 2010, 04:25AM
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Posts: 615

This is why : " thorium-232 is several hundred times more abundant than uranium-235 " (source wikipedia)
Thorium is about as common as lead.

Pinky's Brain

Thu Mar 08 2012, 08:52PM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
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Posts: 837

Fulmen wrote ...
There are far safer designs available, but lack of funding prevents them from being used.

You mean subsidies right? :)

Wind power and hydro electric dams are match made in heaven (wind being cheap but unreliable and hydro offering huge energy storage reservoirs to smooth things out). That's the future for Norway IMO. Doesn't apply to most other countries, but let those countries develop nuclear power.

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