If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #3943
Joined: Sun Jun 12 2011, 05:24PM
Location: The Shire, UK
Posts: 552
When driving a transformer using a half bridge setup like this
Is the voltage that the primary coil "see's" only half of the input voltage? As when driving a flyback transformer I have to use a very low number of primary turns (4-6) in order to get a decent output voltage, compared to just using a single MOSFET setup where even as many as 10 primary turns will give a good output voltage.
Is my assumption of the input voltage getting halved in a half-bridge correct?
Registered Member #2919
Joined: Fri Jun 11 2010, 06:30PM
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 652
Alex1M6 wrote ...
When driving a transformer using a half bridge setup like this
Is the voltage that the primary coil "see's" only half of the input voltage? As when driving a flyback transformer I have to use a very low number of primary turns (4-6) in order to get a decent output voltage, compared to just using a single MOSFET setup where even as many as 10 primary turns will give a good output voltage.
Is my assumption of the input voltage getting halved in a half-bridge correct?
Thanks.
Yes. The peak to peak voltage swing across the primary is only your bus voltage instead of twice that like in a fullbridge. Just halve your primary turns and you're good to go, at least for making sparks.
Registered Member #3943
Joined: Sun Jun 12 2011, 05:24PM
Location: The Shire, UK
Posts: 552
Dr. Isotop wrote ...
Alex1M6 wrote ...
When driving a transformer using a half bridge setup like this
Is the voltage that the primary coil "see's" only half of the input voltage? As when driving a flyback transformer I have to use a very low number of primary turns (4-6) in order to get a decent output voltage, compared to just using a single MOSFET setup where even as many as 10 primary turns will give a good output voltage.
Is my assumption of the input voltage getting halved in a half-bridge correct?
Thanks.
Yes. The peak to peak voltage swing across the primary is only your bus voltage instead of twice that like in a fullbridge. Just halve your primary turns and you're good to go, at least for making sparks.
So do you mean that the voltage the primary coil "see's" is only half of the 36v I am inputting?
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Alex1M6 wrote ...
Turkey9 wrote ...
The primary will see +supply/2 and -supply/2. So +18 and -18 for a total peak to peak voltage of.... 36!
So what would cause the arcs to be smaller compared to a single MOSFET driver?
your not really reallizing whats important... for ultra-high-power circuits (above 2-3kVA) you almost exclusivly use a half or full bridge, as it solves some magnetic issues like saturation, and gets you away from reluctance and remenance with single switch drivers. (and you get rid of air gaps to, since energy is usuallly a bad thing.)
the real advantage of Half/full bridge is that you have a single primary, thus saving you window area for secondaries and air cooling. for example with a CTPP you have two primaries, thus much less secondary volume available and your cooling is not as good.
Arcing and sparking powers and distances are merely incidental to the above factors.
Stated differetnly, your moving the loses and complexity out of the transformer, and into the silicon. thus both (the transformer and switches) can be more highly optimized, seperately for each task (power switching and power conversion). Greater effciency and power are gained at the cost of more numerous, complicated components, and lay-out.
Registered Member #3943
Joined: Sun Jun 12 2011, 05:24PM
Location: The Shire, UK
Posts: 552
Patrick wrote ...
Alex1M6 wrote ...
Turkey9 wrote ...
The primary will see +supply/2 and -supply/2. So +18 and -18 for a total peak to peak voltage of.... 36!
So what would cause the arcs to be smaller compared to a single MOSFET driver?
your not really realising whats important... for ultra-high-power circuits (above 2-3kVA) you almost exclusively use a half or full bridge, as it solves some magnetic issues like saturation, and gets you away from reluctance and remenance with single switch drivers. (and you get rid of air gaps to, since energy is usually a bad thing.)
the real advantage of Half/full bridge is that you have a single primary, thus saving you window area for secondaries and air cooling. for example with a CTPP you have two primaries, thus much less secondary volume available and your cooling is not as good.
Arcing and sparking powers and distances are merely incidental to the above factors.
Stated differently, your moving the loses and complexity out of the transformer, and into the silicon. thus both (the transformer and switches) can be more highly optimized, separately for each task (power switching and power conversion). Greater efficiency and power are gained at the cost of more numerous, complicated components, and lay-out.
Are you are saying that I should remove the air gap spacers in the core? I would get better output by doing that?
The primary coil doesn't seem to get hot at all.
The main reason I am trying to get this setup working best is becuase it is for a plasma speaker. In this setup the audio is much louder than my 555 driver and the MOSFET's take longer to get hot (10 minutes with audio modulation instead of instant cooking).
So I should try removing the plastic core spacers then?
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
No, you asked about half bridges... if your using a flyback for your HV, then you must leave the spacers in, as airgaps and energy storage is essential to how this type of coupled inductor works.
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.