If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
British atomic clock 'most accurate in world'
By Nick Collins, Science Correspondent Daily Telegraph 26 Aug 2011
A British atomic clock is the most accurate measure of time in the world, scientists have announced.
The machine, which is responsible for keeping Britain's clocks on track and also contributes to the international measure of time, is accurate to within two 10 million billionths of a second.
It is one of a handful of similar clocks which determine the exact length of a second by measuring microwaves as they cause reactions in atoms of caesium, a highly volatile element.
But a number of factors including the shape of the microwaves, the influence of nearby magnetic fields and even the clock's position above sea level can cause tiny shifts in its measurements.
By tinkering with the clock, physicists at the National Physical Laboratory (NPL) near London, led by Dr Krzysztof Szymaniec, were able to reduce its margin of error to unprecedented levels.
A new analysis of the clock, conducted by NPL scientists and American colleagues, published in the journal Metrologia, established that it will now drop just a billionth of a second every two months, making it the world's most accurate timekeeper.
Registered Member #311
Joined: Sun Mar 12 2006, 08:28PM
Location:
Posts: 253
Can someone please explain how you verify the accuracy of a 'most accurate' clock (or anything else for that matter) when you don't have a more accurate reference to compare it against.
Registered Member #103
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:16PM
Location: Derby, UK
Posts: 845
wrote ...
A new analysis of the clock, conducted by NPL scientists and American colleagues, published in the journal Metrologia, established that it will now drop just a billionth of a second every two months, making it the world's most accurate timekeeper.
Something isn't quite right here... if the error is predictable (a loss of one billionth of a second every two months) then it becomes easy to compensate for it - making it even more accurate.
I was also wondering the same as Mike in the last post...
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
mikeselectricstuff wrote ...
Can someone please explain how you verify the accuracy of a 'most accurate' clock (or anything else for that matter) when you don't have a more accurate reference to compare it against.
I 'assume' the easiest way to check the accuracy would be to use the speed of light as a reference.
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Geocentric Coordinate Time is defined within the framework of the General Theory of Relativity.
The relationship between Geocentric Coordinate Time and Barycentric Coordinate Time and Terrestrial Time and Proper Time is defined within the General Relativistic Metric.
Science students who don't make a habit of arriving fashionably late for their classes will know that identical clocks can appear to tick at different rates according to the point of view and relative motion of the observer. Knowledge of this difference is a major issue in astronomy, space flight, and particle physics, hence the struggle for greater and greater accuracy.
Avalanche wrote ...
wrote ...
A new analysis of the clock, conducted by NPL scientists and American colleagues, published in the journal Metrologia, established that it will now drop just a billionth of a second every two months, making it the world's most accurate timekeeper.
Something isn't quite right here... if the error is predictable (a loss of one billionth of a second every two months) then it becomes easy to compensate for it - making it even more accurate.
This is the fault of dumbed-down journalism - the article should have refered to a measurement uncertainty of one billionth of a second every two months.
A much better account of the new clock is given in Science Daily: Atomic clock with the world's best long-term accuracy is revealed after evaluation
And that's just about all I know about it, so don't look to me for further demystification!
Registered Member #3792
Joined: Sun Mar 27 2011, 06:07PM
Location:
Posts: 136
In a frequency standard (cesium, rubidium, hydrogen maser) you can compensate for phase error, frequency error and drift error.
Phase error (how much the "clock" has moved from the ideal time): you can correct this in hardware or software.
Frequency error (how much the "clock" has moved from the ideal frequency): you can correct it by negative looping (as the frequency error increases, loop is trying to decrease the frequency and, ideally, to stay in one value).
Drift error (the speed that the "clock" moves from the ideal value - time or frequency): it is more difficult to compensate for, but with smart computer algorithms you can correct it too.
The only thing that is impossible to compensate is the irregularity of the drift rate: the chaotic style of this irregularity is that what distinguishes every frequency standard. And this is what the scientists call "Accuracy" of the clock.
We might think that "Oh, two 10 million billionths of a second are too little time". But this is what cesium can do. It may be possible to drop it a magnitude more, but cesium has reached a dead end - it can't do any better. The only way to increase the time accuracy even more is to move the frequencies that these standards produce higher, using optical frequencies instead of microwave.
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.