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4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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Transformer Help

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Chip Fixes
Sat Jul 02 2011, 06:44PM Print
Chip Fixes Registered Member #3781 Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
Location:
Posts: 701
I have zero experience winding my own transformers, however the time has come for me to learn, plus I need one for the Plasma Speaker I am building Link2
Oliver Hunt used a transformer that he can use for other projects Link2

However I would like to make one specifically designed for my plasma speaker, how do I figure out the number of primary and secondary winding's I need? and how do I figure out what gauge wire I should use for the primary and secondary winding's? Also, can I just use a large MOT to place the winding's on or am I better off using a piece of PVC pipe with a ferrite core, like Oliver did?

I would appreciate it if you explained how to figure this out instead of just telling me the answer, I like to learn about what I am building and why it works, haha smile

Thanks for any help!!
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Forty
Sat Jul 02 2011, 11:08PM
Forty Registered Member #3888 Joined: Sun May 15 2011, 09:50PM
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 649
can't find a flyback transformer anywhere?

you definitely do not want to use a MOT core, use ferrite. the high frequencies would cause the mot core to heat up very quickly.

use the same number of primary turns as he did, as that's what the circuit was designed for.
the number of secondary turns depends on the kind of voltage you want (or how long you want the arc to be)
the ratio of secondary turns divided by primary turns (in this case, 4) gives you roughly what factor the voltage will be multiplied by. that value multiplied by the primary voltage (24v) gives you the secondary voltage (roughly)
every centimeter of spark requires about 10kv to start itself.
so if you want, say, a 2cm spark, youll need 20kv.
with an input of 24v that requires about an 833 times the input voltage. with 4 primary turns, you would need 4*833 = 3332 secondary turns.
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Chip Fixes
Sun Jul 03 2011, 12:59AM
Chip Fixes Registered Member #3781 Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
Location:
Posts: 701
Oh thanks a ton!! And yes I have a few flybacks but I would like to get a bigger arc than what a flyback can produce

So what's the limit for the secondary? Can you have too many turns on the secondary?

EDIT: 50,000 turns = 30cm or about a foot for arc length (At that length, the arc would probably be able to reproduce the lower frequencies)
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Dr. ISOTOP
Sun Jul 03 2011, 10:20AM
Dr. ISOTOP Registered Member #2919 Joined: Fri Jun 11 2010, 06:30PM
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 652
Mehhhhhhh don't try to wind transformers for ridiculous step-ups. Increase your primary voltage/decrease your primary turns.
Big ferrite (e.g. TSC's biggest U-cores) is good for ~35V/turn.
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Forty
Sun Jul 03 2011, 04:07PM
Forty Registered Member #3888 Joined: Sun May 15 2011, 09:50PM
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 649
i guess you can't have "too many turns," but the higher the voltage, the harder it is to insulate. and that difficulty is again multiplied because of the signal being high frequency ac. making your own transformer that can make 1 inch arcs will be hard enough.

edit: for low frequency signals, i think you need something like a corona generator (think: bed of nails), to vibrate more air at once.
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Chip Fixes
Sun Jul 03 2011, 06:32PM
Chip Fixes Registered Member #3781 Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
Location:
Posts: 701
Ah that makes sense. So is there a point when flashover occurs?
Can you put transformers in series? lets say the first one outputs at 1kv, so the second one inputs at 1kv with 4 primary turns, with 1000 turns on secondary the secondary would output at 250kv O.o I suppose the transformer would get pretty hot, pretty fast, at that voltage....


Is there an equation to figure out how many turns on the primary are required, based on the input voltage?
Do different gauges of wire make a difference on the secondary?
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Dr. ISOTOP
Sun Jul 03 2011, 06:38PM
Dr. ISOTOP Registered Member #2919 Joined: Fri Jun 11 2010, 06:30PM
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 652
(1) No. Saturation.
(2) Don't saturate your core.
(3) Only at high current (I^2R losses)
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