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Making Ozone go Away

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magnet18

Thu Apr 28 2011, 02:13AM

Registered Member #3766 Joined: Sun Mar 20 2011, 05:39AM
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Posts: 624

Not sure which section this should go in, so I'll just stick it here because there are probably multiple methods.
Basically, I intend to build a corona speaker (not until after may 8th, I'm testing sooo hard till then), and corona releases over 9000 times the ozone of a little standard arc, meaning it's a substantial amount, meaning that I can't sit next to it for hours on end without trouble. (I really want to see how it handles lower frequencies). My first idea was platinum wire mesh, then I remembered that platinum costs waaaaay more than I'm willing to pay, so unless anyone has any spools of platinum around, any ideas are welcome. I'm thinking argon, but I'm not sure how to make it moderately sized, audible, and still retain the argon inside it. (I want a nice square panel of spikes emitting corona, gonna look BA).

So, 4HV, have at! This is a discussion thread.
(and if you're reading this thread in the future and it's been untouched for a long time please feel free to bring it back to the light.)

Chip Fixes

Thu Apr 28 2011, 02:50AM

Registered Member #3781 Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
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Posts: 701

If you can make it loud enough maybe you could seal it off in a container, although I'm not sure how well it would work after all the air is gone... otherwise Platinum or Helium/Argon gas is your best bet that I know of. Otherwise you could buy/make a small version of a filter or maybe a hood unit for it? just some ideas...

Bored Chemist

Thu Apr 28 2011, 11:36AM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

Silver does a fine job of catalysing the decomposition of ozone. However, I think there's a bigger problem; if the sound can get out past the mesh then some of the ozone will too.

Bjørn

Thu Apr 28 2011, 11:59AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

Devices that make ozone often use a fan to pass the air through an activated carbon filter.

ScotchTapeLord

Thu Apr 28 2011, 12:10PM

Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
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Posts: 635

The problem with activated carbon is that it reacts with the ozone and would need to be replaced periodically. The good news is that it isn't terribly difficult to procure in quantities (they sell face masks made with it you can buy in bulk).

I hear carbon emissions are good for making ozone go away, too, so maybe just power the thing with an inefficient generator. =)

magnet18

Thu Apr 28 2011, 02:45PM

Registered Member #3766 Joined: Sun Mar 20 2011, 05:39AM
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Posts: 624

Silver is a good idea, now where to source large amounts of it...
I was thinking that if the mesh was semi-tight (like a windscreen in a recording studio) it should allow the sound to pass well while slowing the airflow through it enough that the ozone is primarily inside the speaker or oving slowly enough through that it has time to catalyze. I don't need zero emissions, just enough that it's not toxic levels.
I'll look into the carbon filter idea...

James

Thu Apr 28 2011, 04:56PM

Registered Member #3610 Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506

Activated carbon is used in laser printers, a little filter lasts a long time.

Sulaiman

Thu Apr 28 2011, 06:49PM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

Pumps, fans etc. can be noisy - not my first choice for a speaker,
so convection is probably the way to go
OR
(just an idea .. not tried)

Could you completely seal the emitter(s) in a metal enclosure (Earthed)
with a thin glass sheet front, thin glass transmits sound quite well
and the rigid (maybe a half-cylinder) back and sides could direct all of the sound forwards.

What would happen when the ionization starts?
- could all of the oxygen be converted to ozone
- would the metal enclosure 'discharge' the ozone?
- if all the 'air' turns to ozone and nitrogen
.... will there still be any sound? (I guess yes)
- how long will the glass (or thin metal/metalized foil etc.) last?
Lots of Chemistry questions. (stuff I do not know or remember the answers to)
One note on chemistry.
Since this is MkI don't worry about ozone corrosion etc.
just get some prototype working then do the nitty-gritty for MkII.

A small 'air leak' is required for atmospheric pressure equalisation and explosion prevention.

James

Thu Apr 28 2011, 07:56PM

Registered Member #3610 Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506

Fans *can* be noisy, but it is certainly possible to run one at a speed that makes it virtually silent and still provide adequate airflow, especially larger 3"-4" sizes.

If you seal the plasma then you are effectively back to a conventional speaker with the restraints imposed by a physical diaphragm. At that point you may as well bond a voicecoil to a sheet of glass.

magnet18

Thu Apr 28 2011, 08:07PM

Registered Member #3766 Joined: Sun Mar 20 2011, 05:39AM
Location:

Posts: 624

James wrote ...

Activated carbon is used in laser printers, a little filter lasts a long time.

Really? Awesome, I might know where to swip*cough cough, I mean acquire one to play with...

wrote ...

Pumps, fans etc. can be noisy - not my first choice for a speaker,
so convection is probably the way to go

agreed

wrote ...
OR
(just an idea .. not tried)

Could you completely seal the emitter(s) in a metal enclosure (Earthed)
with a thin glass sheet front, thin glass transmits sound quite well
and the rigid (maybe a half-cylinder) back and sides could direct all of the sound forwards.

I had had that idea, (but I was thinking saran wrap... easier to get), but if I did then I couldn't brag about it being a massless speaker... not that I really care, but I like to brag

wrote ...
What would happen when the ionization starts?
- could all of the oxygen be converted to ozone
- would the metal enclosure 'discharge' the ozone?
- if all the 'air' turns to ozone and nitrogen
.... will there still be any sound? (I guess yes)
- how long will the glass (or thin metal/metalized foil etc.) last?

yes, all the oxygen can become ozone, ozone has no charge (if it does I can do this a lot easier...), yea, there will still be sound, ozone will break down just like oxygen, if not better, it just recombines to make more ozone, and it will probably last until i break it...

wrote ...
Lots of Chemistry questions. (stuff I do not know or remember the answers to)
One note on chemistry.
Since this is MkI don't worry about ozone corrosion etc.
just get some prototype working then do the nitty-gritty for MkII.

A small 'air leak' is required for atmospheric pressure equalisation and explosion prevention.

what? since when are explosions bad?

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