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Need help with building or purchasing an HV power supply

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Patrick

Wed Apr 20 2011, 04:42AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Michael Chen wrote ...

It is physically impossible to have a transformer that can run both at 50 hertz and 3500 hertz.

I think , if he means a repatition rate of 50-3500Hz, and pulse width 1-10uS, this transformer might be possible at low wattage.

ny11212

Wed Apr 20 2011, 02:06PM

Registered Member #3839 Joined: Tue Apr 19 2011, 07:00PM
Location:
Posts: 8

I should've been more clear, as you can tell, I'm extremely new.

I need it for a cold plasma etching machine. I can't really

And Patrick you are right about the 120v 240va.

Again, I'm not very familiar with this stuff, and I really appreciate all your help.

I have seen a power supply like this before, it was a custom built European one, but I know it exists.

Essentially, I've been told I could use three separate machines-
A wave-form generator for generation of 0-22.5V rms sine, square, and triangular waves. That Signal would then be amplified with a 250A
amplifier and stepped up to high voltage with a Transformer, 22.5V rms primary and 20 kV secondary to
get the high voltage signal.

Just wondering if someone manufactured a unit that would combine all three, or if someone was willing to build it.

Patrick

Wed Apr 20 2011, 04:50PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

I think you will need someone to make this for you, I have no idea what a fair price would be.

You clearly dont have the knowledge to make or arrange this kind of device. I would think an ferrite SMPS would be the right direction to start. A signal generator to amp to transformer is not going to give you what you expect.

Is this for a corporation or small business?

James

Wed Apr 20 2011, 04:57PM

Registered Member #3610 Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506

You can't really what?

Do you have any links to the sort of machine you're trying to build? It sounds like you want something that produces high voltage high current pulses, that's a lot more reasonable than trying to make something produce that kinda power continuous wave. It's important to clearly explain the end goal of what you want it to do if you want advice on creating a circuit to do it.

A Marx generator might be a workable approach. Something with a capacitor bank and spark gap trigger. You really need to read up on a bit more background and basic electronics so that you understand all the specs that you are asking for. Even if somebody were to hand you a complete circuit, you still need to understand how it works to an extent in order to build and debug it.

240VA and 22.5V sound like specs used in one particular design out there, not things that would be requirements to do the task at hand. I'm not sure what a 250A amplifier is.

Ash Small

Wed Apr 20 2011, 05:19PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Can you give more details about the cold plasma etching machine?

I'm building something similar, and I took a job for a year assembling commercial plasma processing equipment, so I'm familiar with a lot of these units.

Is this a commercial project or an amateur one?

As I understand it, lower current would just mean longer etching times,

ny11212

Wed Apr 20 2011, 06:53PM

Registered Member #3839 Joined: Tue Apr 19 2011, 07:00PM
Location:
Posts: 8

I can't give too many details about the intended use, as I'm bound by an NDA.

This is a commercial project, and its for a small startup business.

If anyone thinks they can either build or spec one, please contact me, and I'd be happy to discuss compensation.

Thanks

Patrick

Wed Apr 20 2011, 07:36PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

ny11212 wrote ...

I can't give too many details about the intended use, as I'm bound by an NDA.

If anyone thinks they can either build or spec one, please contact me, and I'd be happy to discuss compensation.

This just got a whole lot more iffy.

ny11212

Wed Apr 20 2011, 08:04PM

Registered Member #3839 Joined: Tue Apr 19 2011, 07:00PM
Location:
Posts: 8

How is that iffy.

I posted this with the best of intentions, I guess it was kind of a waste of time. I prefaced by saying that I was new to this.

It's interesting that all I asked for was a little help, or if someone would want to make money by building a power supply.

I can't discuss the purpose of the device, except to say that it is a cold plasma etching device.

No one here has ever signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement?

Whatever. I guess this was a waste of time. Thanks for nothing.

Ash Small

Wed Apr 20 2011, 08:57PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

ny11212 wrote ...

How is that iffy.

I posted this with the best of intentions, I guess it was kind of a waste of time. I prefaced by saying that I was new to this.

It's interesting that all I asked for was a little help, or if someone would want to make money by building a power supply.

I can't discuss the purpose of the device, except to say that it is a cold plasma etching device.

No one here has ever signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement?

Whatever. I guess this was a waste of time. Thanks for nothing.

I'd be interested in discussing this as I'm doing something similar, but if I got involved I'd want to post details here, for practical advice as much as anything else.

You might find someone here who will build it for you for a fee, but one of the reasons I'm on this site is to ask for advice regarding RF generators, microwave ion sources and electrostatic accelerator power supplies. I'm prepared to post details of my results, though, as per the 'spirit' of forums such as this.

James

Wed Apr 20 2011, 09:04PM

Registered Member #3610 Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506

Well this is generally a collection of hobbyists, a few of us are engineers in our day jobs, quite a few are students. It sounds like what you want is a professional consulting engineer, and this is not really the best place to go for that. Several of us have tried offering suggestions, but the details given are too vague to know whether this is feasible. I understand the constraints of an NDA, but if it prevents you from disclosing details of the machine you wish to power, then you will have to obtain detailed specifications on the power it requires. The following is an example list of specs that an engineer will require:

Input power, this includes the desired voltage and current you would like to power it with, as well as the acceptable range or limits. For example 120VAC, must operate satisfactorily over a range of 105-125V, maximum draw not more than 15 Amps.

Output power, this includes voltage, current, frequency, acceptable waveforms, duty cycle, adjustment range, etc. For a continuous wave supply an example could be 10-15kV DC, 2mA continuous, 4mA peak. Output stability 5% into rated load. For a pulsed supply you will need to know the required pulse amplitude, width, peak and average current, and pulse shape if it matters.

Additional requirements include size and form factor targets. Do you want a desktop enclosure, something that will fit in a standard rackmount box, a freestanding floor enclosure? How about operating environment, will this be used indoors or out? What temperature range? Must it tolerate exposure to moisture or chemical vapors? Is there a risk of explosive vapors? What is the cost budget? Estimated production numbers? Is RF interference production a concern? What sort of safety measures may be required to protect the operator(s)? What is the required reliability? I'm sure more questions will come up as things progress.

In a nutshell, there are plenty of people out there who can help you with this, but they have to make a living, their help will not be free. 4HV is a forum for the free exchange of ideas and experiments. If you were working on a design and having trouble with a particular element, somebody here would be happy to kick out ideas, but it's not the place to go asking for a full turnkey solution from scratch.

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