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Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
wrote ...
To say that the disaster is worse than Chernobyl is misleading at best.
No it's not. Given the uncertainties involved in trying to measure and quantify things, the uncertainties of trying to predict consequences, the differing perspectives of "experts", and the tendency of responsible elites to downplay disasters such as this, there's a certain amount of ambiguity and subjectivity involved in any simple description of a mess like this, no? Depending on who you listen to, some people say it's not as bad, some say it's worse. Certainly it's comparable. And given the fact that it's expected to go on releasing poison for months yet to come, saying it's worse is not "misleading", under the circumstances.
I think you're just being contrary.
wrote ...
They are both classified as level 7, but that's the highest level there is. A student who scores 59% and a student who score 0% both get an F, but is the one who got 59% as bad as the one who got a zero?
Ok, I think I follow: So if one corpse is a little less radioactive than another, the lesser of the two radioactive corpses "wins"?
wrote ...
Chernobyl suffered a full meltdown and steam explosion that dispersed the core of a reactor that had no containment vessel. Fukushima had a hydrogen explosion but the core is largely intact, the reactor has a containment vessel and the leaked radioactive materials have a very short half life. That's not to say that it is not a catastrophe, but there is a huge amount of fear mongering and irrational hysteria parroted by folks who's knowledge of radiation consists of what they've learned from Hollywood and comic books.
As I understand it, most of the radioactive material that has been released so far has been cesium-137 and iodine-131. Do you disagree? Do you disagree that these two radionuclides were responsible for most of the morbidity and mortality associated with Chernobyl? So what's your point?
wrote ...
The world is not out to get you, "the government" is not a gigantic monolithic conspiracy engine and the radioactive boogieman is not hiding under your bed.
Really, what planet do you come from, Chump? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but on this planet, Earth, "government" is generally nothing more than organized sociopathy. As I type this, the consummately corrupt governments of "the West" are leading the world to WW3. Here in the U.S., we have lying, thieving, mass murdering psychopaths running things. Presently, they're slaughtering people all over the world, in illegal, immoral wars of aggression based on a transparently obvious act of false-flag domestic terrorism. A quick study of the robust Historical record of "government" treachery proves my point about the nature of "government".
wrote ...
Put away the tinfoil hat and do some research before reacting.
You should be looking at your monitor, not your mirror, Chump, as you type your hapless statist drivel.
wrote ...
There's a gigantic uncontrolled nuclear reactor in the sky spewing harmful radiation all day long and yet countless people deliberately bask in it.
ROTFLMAO! You're going to compare getting a suntan with ingesting dangerous bioaccumulative radionuclides? And then you expect to be taken seriously?
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
jpsmith123 wrote ...
Really, what planet do you come from, Chump? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but on this planet, Earth, "government" is generally nothing more than organized sociopathy. As I type this, the consummately corrupt governments of "the West" are leading the world to WW3. Here in the U.S., we have lying, thieving, mass murdering psychopaths running things. Presently, they're slaughtering people all over the world, in illegal, immoral wars of aggression based on a transparently obvious act of false-flag domestic terrorism. A quick study of the robust Historical record of "government" treachery proves my point about the nature of "government".
I would not go this far. The US has botched many matters of domestic and foreign policy. While the UN is deciecvely evil, We Americans are not.
in any case, back to the posted topic, I would reccomend a scintillator counter, if I could afford one thats what id get, just to make my own measurements, since I dont trust governments or corporations.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
Firstly, the major problem is, the disaster is still evolving. Not only is it expected to continue releasing poison for several more months (if everything goes according to "plan"), but there is still the potential, for example, for the catastrophic release of perhaps an order of magnitude more Cesium-137 than was released at Chernobyl.
Second, define precisely what you mean by "hazardous contamination". Personally, I'd prefer not to ingest *any* radionuclides from Fukushima, and not some arbitrary amount arbitrarily defined to be "non-hazardous" by some arbitrary body of hapless government stooges.
Lastly, an objective examination of the robust Historical record provides plenty of examples of government treachery. I could list many right here but I don't want to go too far off topic.
Klugesmith wrote ...
I'm not so sure you can say that "the risk is low". ... We should know from experience by now that nothing our Masters say can be taken at face value.
But it's not just "the government" or "big industry" that says there is NO hazardous contamination in the USA from Fukushima leaks. It is anybody with suitable instruments and knowledge - for example, thousands of universities and colleges, and many gifted amateurs, on alert for isotopes like astronomers scan for new comets.
Do we get into conspiracy theories when the national weather service says "It is raining right now at LAX, and clear at SFO"?
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
jpsmith123 wrote ...
Second, define precisely what you mean by "hazardous contamination". Personally, I'd prefer not to ingest *any* radionuclides from Fukushima, and not some arbitrary amount arbitrarily defined to be "non-hazardous" by some arbitrary body of hapless government stooges.
Then for this task you will need to drop 200k USD on MS-GC, there is no other way to detect biologically significant amounts of these atoms and molecules by thier rate of decay. Molar concentration is important.
Perhaps, here on the forum maybe some peeps could snag some russian or american critcal pieces and devices off ebay, and build a MS-GC. its a super complicated and precise device but maybe its possible.
Registered Member #3610
Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506
Well I'm gonna duck out of this thread after this post because logic, reasoning and common sense are of no use in a "debate" with someone who has already made up their mind. I've followed the events, I've corresponded with people who know their stuff when it comes to all things nuclear, and just for fun I've fired up my own radiation monitoring equipment and found absolutely zero above the normal background radiation. I've provided a chart quantifying sources of exposure and citing sources, and I was around when Chernobyl occurred and clearly remember the aftermath.
You are correct in that the bulk of what was leaked from Fukushima is iodine 131, which has a half life of about 8 days. Cesium 137 has a half life of around 30 years, but even that is small compared to that of several portions of the massive radioactive cocktail that the Chernobyl explosion spewed into the atmosphere.
As for governments and corporations, by and large I don't trust them, but I have more faith in them than the "sky is falling everyone panic" fringe lunatics. I find it especially amusing that the people ranting about big convoluted conspiracies seem to be the first to accuse the government of being too incompetent to function. If you're really concerned though, take Patrick's advice and pick up a scintillation counter, a geiger counter is not gonna be sensitive enough and most only respond appreciably to gamma radiation anyway. If you do start to detect radiation greatly above natural background though I'm not sure where you're gonna go though, and if the radiation has you terrified I'm not sure how you deal with all the other risks in life. Careful walking down those stairs, thousands of people are killed each year in falls.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
I'm not worried too much about the iodine. It's the ones with the long half-lives that cause me some concern. And as I've endeavored to point out, it's not even so much what's already been released, as it is what could still potentially be released before this is over.
Grenadier wrote ...
Well I just put my mica window GM tube to my milk and there was no more radiation spewing from it than there is emanating from my cat.
Don't overreact jpsmith, even if some radioiodine makes it to the US it'd be in such small quantities that your bananas will pose a greater threat.
Registered Member #2893
Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
Look at it this way, if the 137Cs and 90Sr make it into your food a geiger counter isn't going to be very useful, seeing as you'll have to eat no matter what.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
wrote ...
Well I'm gonna duck out of this thread after this post because logic, reasoning and common sense are of no use in a "debate" with someone who has already made up their mind.
Aw, stick around; maybe we can open up your mind. In any case, I appreciate your candor.
wrote ...
I've followed the events, I've corresponded with people who know their stuff when it comes to all things nuclear, and just for fun I've fired up my own radiation monitoring equipment and found absolutely zero above the normal background radiation. I've provided a chart quantifying sources of exposure and citing sources, and I was around when Chernobyl occurred and clearly remember the aftermath.
Frankly I don't think anyone can predict what's going to happen at Fukushima, how much of which material will ultimately be released, where it will end up, what the long term consequences will be for the food chain, etc., not even you, I'm sorry to say.
wrote ...
You are correct in that the bulk of what was leaked from Fukushima is iodine 131, which has a half life of about 8 days. Cesium 137 has a half life of around 30 years, but even that is small compared to that of several portions of the massive radioactive cocktail that the Chernobyl explosion spewed into the atmosphere.
As I pointed out, the cesium and iodine were apparently responsible for most of the morbidity and mortality following Chernobyl, IIRC. And there is a lot more cesium that could potentially be released in the instant disaster before it's over...supposedly more than an order of magnitude more than the Chernobyl release.
wrote ...
As for governments and corporations, by and large I don't trust them, but I have more faith in them than the "sky is falling everyone panic" fringe lunatics.
Dude, do you live in a closet or something? Was there anything more "lunatic" than the U.S. government's conduct regarding the BP oil "spill"? I'm sorry, but your comments reflect a breathtaking naivety regarding the very nature of "government", and the "people" that comprise it. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but "government" is not the collection of Mister Rogers clones you seem to think it is.
wrote ...
I find it especially amusing that the people ranting about big convoluted conspiracies seem to be the first to accuse the government of being too incompetent to function.
And I find it especially amusing when people trot out this stale old strawman.
Newsflash: "government", itself, is one big conspiracy. If you cannot believe what's happening right out in the open, right in front of your very own eyes, what kind of a chance do my words have to convince you of anything? Not very much I'm afraid.
wrote ...
If you're really concerned though, take Patrick's advice and pick up a scintillation counter, a geiger counter is not gonna be sensitive enough and most only respond appreciably to gamma radiation anyway. If you do start to detect radiation greatly above natural background though I'm not sure where you're gonna go though, and if the radiation has you terrified I'm not sure how you deal with all the other risks in life. Careful walking down those stairs, thousands of people are killed each year in falls.
What makes you imply that radiation has me "terrified"?
If it does become a significant issue, it will be something else which will have to be managed somehow. It may also be yet another reason to move to the Southern hemisphere somewhere.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
I don't know how credible this Dr. Blaylock is, but he thinks there's a risk of contamination of farm products from the Western U.S.:
Grenadier wrote ...
Look at it this way, if the 137Cs and 90Sr make it into your food a geiger counter isn't going to be very useful, seeing as you'll have to eat no matter what.
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Is it time to buy a Geiger counter yet?
