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LAN_403

HV Enthusiast

Thu Jun 08 2006, 06:47PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
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Posts: 3068

Looks like someone is making real (well, maybe not the conventional ball lighting) ball lightning in the lab.
Looks simple. I wonder who will try it first in our group. TDU?

http://www.physorg.com/news68812957.html

Plasmaniac

Thu Jun 08 2006, 07:55PM

Registered Member #206 Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 03:17PM
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Posts: 72

In the original text you can see how it is built. 500ÂµF at 5kV are 6250J...

EDIT: huh:

HV Enthusiast

Thu Jun 08 2006, 08:08PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
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Posts: 3068

Thats definitely doable. I know TDU has got a few these probably just lying in his kitchen somewhere.

ragnar

Thu Jun 08 2006, 08:28PM

Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
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I was always hoping to try magnetic deflection/movement (by means of a capacitive blast) of big flyback arcs... never got round to it though.

With a nice big ZVS, you can make plumes of arc/plasma that take ~0.2-0.4s to extinguish. I was imagining that with a well-shaped field, it must be possible to send it somewhere. I haven't got any capacitors though.

Peter, wanna try? =D

Dr. Dark Current

Thu Jun 08 2006, 08:31PM

Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384

I remember seeing somewhere on the net (sorry dont remember the site) an experiment in which a stable ball lightning was generated in a microwave. (at least the author claimed so). It involved puttind some quarter-wave antenna vertically, and a small glass jar over it. The "ball lightning" formed inside the glass jar. (thats all I remember)

J.M.

Marko

Thu Jun 08 2006, 08:40PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

Microwave ball lightning cannot be even close to real since you have no powerful natural microwave source anywhere.

Microwave plasmoids are just a 'spark' separated from discharge and it lives and floats around just because eddy currents are keeping it hot and ionised.

From what I can tell just dipping electrodes in jar of water like shown will do nothing.
Cap will just (relatively slowly) discharge trough it.

I guess you need very small amount of water or electrode outside of it to ignite the arc.

Water steam may eventually turn to plasma and possibly cause some 'flame' effects like seen.

To me, the green thing they put there looks a bit like it is added in photoshop

Psyko

Thu Jun 08 2006, 08:45PM

Registered Member #81 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 11:57AM
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 43

Jmartis wrote ...

I remember seeing somewhere on the net (sorry dont remember the site) an experiment in which a stable ball lightning was generated in a microwave. (at least the author claimed so). It involved puttind some quarter-wave antenna vertically, and a small glass jar over it. The "ball lightning" formed inside the glass jar. (thats all I remember)

J.M.

From Jean Louis Naudin website

Marko

Thu Jun 08 2006, 08:50PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

From Jean Louis Naudin website

Microwave 'ball-lightning' thing is very well known and tried, not just some JLN crap.
You just need to provoke arc big enough, and microwaves will do the rest.
But it simply cannot be linked with 'natural' stuff with any mean since we would need an extremly powerful microwave source to actually do this.

Dr. Shark

Fri Jun 09 2006, 09:07AM

Registered Member #75 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 09:30AM
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 711

From the article it is not really clear what kind of discharge is going on there. At one point they talk about 50A current going through the salt water, but that can't be the whole story. I dropped an email to the Prof responsible for the experiments, lets see what he replies. If it is really done with low current, it could easily be replicated with a bank of electrolytics.

cbfull

Fri Jun 09 2006, 11:31AM

Registered Member #187 Joined: Thu Feb 16 2006, 02:54PM
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 140

If the plasmoid they have created is composed of some sort of ionized water vapor/electrolyte cloud, then I would imagine it is possible to simulate with a microwave setup. But it appears that the phenomenon is not yet understood well enought to draw this coclusion.

I second the photoshop comment. A 0.3 second plasmoid is long enough that they should be able to photograph it with no problem. Not saying I think the photo is shopped, I just agree it looks strange.

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