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Adding muriatic acid to ferric chloride?

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LAN_403

Arcstarter

Sat Jan 01 2011, 02:01AM

Registered Member #1225 Joined: Sat Jan 12 2008, 01:24AM
Location: Beaumont, Texas, USA
Posts: 2253

I remember reading somewhere that when your ferric chloride looses it's 'umph', you can rejuvenate it by adding some muriatic acid. I know this is the case with cupric chloride, that once it has so much copper dissolved it needs some more acid, but no matter what i search on google it always seems to come up with a recipe for cupric chloride instead of the answer.

So, does that work?

IntraWinding

Sat Jan 01 2011, 02:18PM

Registered Member #2261 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581

I think it should work. Why not give it a go?

Personally I prefer the Copper Chlorides system - the colours are really nice and it doesn't stain things!

Bear in mind that oxygen is also needed to rejuvenate the etchant. To start a Copper Chlorides solution you can use just Hydrochloric Acid + Hydrogen Peroxide and this will dissolve copper straight away. After the Hydrogen Peroxide is used up the solution of Copper Chlorides can still dissolve copper so long as hydrochloric acid is present but now needs atmospheric oxygen. I imagine it will be the same for the ferric/ferrous system as the cupric/cuprous one.

Arcstarter

Sat Jan 01 2011, 08:41PM

Registered Member #1225 Joined: Sat Jan 12 2008, 01:24AM
Location: Beaumont, Texas, USA
Posts: 2253

I did actually make some cupric chloride, though im pretty sure my mom threw it out. It did not seem to work well at all, it took a day to take all the copper off of a dual side copper clad board, and that was just one ounce, i am using 2 ounce right now.

Ah, im not sure, i will look for it sometime soon and try it again. About the oxygen, i guess it would be helpful aerating it to introduce oxygen and to agitate it?

Thanks.

IntraWinding

Sat Jan 01 2011, 08:53PM

Registered Member #2261 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581

Arcstarter wrote ...
About the Oxygen, i guess it would be helpful aerating it to introduce Oxygen and to agitate it?

I think that's why they use bubbles in some Ferric Chloride etching tanks, although they only say it's for mixing in the ones I've seen. A fish tank pump would be about the right size, but your tank needs some kind of filter to stop the spray of etchant from bursting bubbles being carried out into the air you breath.

Gunboat

Mon Jan 03 2011, 01:49PM

Registered Member #338 Joined: Thu Mar 23 2006, 12:28PM
Location:
Posts: 41

Don't quote me on this,but,muratic acid usually only works on something with calcium carbonate in it.

IntraWinding

Mon Jan 03 2011, 03:37PM

Registered Member #2261 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581

Gunboat wrote ...

Don't quote me on this,but,muratic acid usually only works on something with calcium carbonate in it.

Oops! That's a bit like saying, Hammers only work on nails", but much worse! More like, "Air is only good for breathing"!

radhoo

Mon Jan 17 2011, 04:27PM

Registered Member #1938 Joined: Sun Jan 25 2009, 12:44PM
Location: Romania
Posts: 701

I can't believe you still call it muriatic acid, in English

I remember when I was reading a book "From the history of chemical elements discovery" , describing the quest for " Murium " (1774, Karl Wilhelm Scheele)

IntraWinding

Tue Jan 18 2011, 05:09PM

Registered Member #2261 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581

Yes, it's a bit like a trip back to these days:

"We have already given you, in a General Chapter, the Sum of the Intention of Metals; and here we now intend to make a special Declaration of each one. And first of Gold. We say, Gold is a Metallick Body, Citrine, ponderous, mute, fulgid, equally digested in the Bowels of the Earth, and very long washed with Mineral Water; under the Hammer extensible, fusible, and sustaining the Tryal of the Cupet, and Cement. According to this Definition, you may conclude, that nothing is true Gold, unless it hath all the Causes and Differencies of the Definition of Gold. Yet, whatsoever Metal is radically Citrine, and brings to Equality, and cleanseth, it makes Gold of every kind of Metals. Therefore, we consider by the Work of Nature, and discern, that Copper may be changed into Gold by Artifice. For we see in Copper Mines, a certain Water which flows out, and carries with it thin Scales of Copper, which (by a continual and long continued Course) it washeth and cleanseth. But after such Water ceaseth to flow, we find these thin Scales with the dry Sand, in three years time to be digested with the Heat of the Sun; and among these Scales the purest Gold is found. Therefore, We judge, those Scales were cleansed by the benefit of the Water, but were equally digested by heat of the Sun, in the Dryness of the Sand, and so brought to Equality. Wherefore, imitating Nature, as far as can, we likewise alter; yet in this we cannot follow Nature. Also Gold is of Metals the most precious, and it is the Tincture of Redness; because it tingeth and transforms every Body. It is calcined and dissolved without profit, and is a Medicine rejoycing, and conserving the Body in Youth. It is most easily broken with Mercury, and by the Odour of Lead. There is not any Body that in act more agrees with it in Substance than Jupiter and Luna; but in Weight, Deafeness, and Putrescibility, Saturn, in Colour Venus; in Potency indeed Venus is more next Luna than Jupiter, and then Saturn: but lastly Mars. And this is one of the Secrets of Nature. Likewise Spirits are commixed with it, and by it fixed, but not without very great Ingenuity, which comes not to an Artificer of a stiff neck."

(Geber) (c. 721-815),

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