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4hv.org :: Forums :: Electromagnetic Radiation
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harvesting energy from 50Hz EM radiation

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scrooch
Sat Dec 25 2010, 09:21AM Print
scrooch Registered Member #908 Joined: Wed Jul 18 2007, 05:53AM
Location:
Posts: 49
I am interested in implementing some temperature sensors in a busbar room in a powerplant to monitor the busbar temperatures. Since this is a high voltage environment putting wired sensors and gathering data is not the easiest thing.

I was wondering if it was feasible to use the 50Hz magnetic field inside the room to power the sensors.
How would i get about the task of designing an antenna that would gather the energy from this field efficiently?

I havent worked out the other electronics as yet, but i figured the antenna is the starting point.
The whole contraption has to be as small as possible because it has to be mounted on a busbar surface.
busbars carry around 6000A at around 15Kv
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Mattski
Sat Dec 25 2010, 10:20AM
Mattski Registered Member #1792 Joined: Fri Oct 31 2008, 08:12PM
Location: University of California
Posts: 527
Something like a Rogowski coil around the bus bar seems like a fine way to siphon a bit of power into a measuring circuit.
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Pinky's Brain
Sun Dec 26 2010, 12:48PM
Pinky's Brain Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837
An antenna? How much room do you have? :) (Wavelength and all.)

AFAICS you simply need a solenoid with the axis of the solenoid lined up with the magnetic field lines (so assuming the busbar is carrying AC current, it would be flat on the busbar perpendiclar to direction of the current).

The rogowski coil is the same idea, except it goes all the way around.
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radiotech
Mon Dec 27 2010, 08:11AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
The normal way to look at heat of electrical busswork ; (at least from someone who installed and maintained 15KV gear.)

Link2
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Steve Conner
Tue Dec 28 2010, 02:25PM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
There will be a huge magnetic field around the busbars. A solenoidal coil as Pinky suggested should pick up lots of it, and a core of (preferably laminated) iron would help it pick up even more. Maybe try pulling the coil out of a relay, or a quartz clock, etc.

There will also be a large electric field. You could pick some up with a little capacitive antenna, a disc or sphere on the end of a stick or suchlike. When you're some little gizmo standing on the busbar, the busbar looks like ground, and the whole rest of the world looks like it's energized with 15kV AC. So if you can make any kind of capacitive coupling to the rest of the world, a current will flow that you can rectify. The size of the antenna will be limited by safety clearance considerations.

The magnetic field will vary with the load current. Your sensors might not work at light loads. So maybe you want to use the electric field instead, or use both.
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GhostlyFigures
Wed Feb 09 2011, 01:19AM
GhostlyFigures Registered Member #2385 Joined: Thu Sept 24 2009, 01:26AM
Location: Waxhaw, North Carolina (Or Charlotte near UNCC)
Posts: 26
You could suggest it to the higher ups and get some R&D going b/c that would be a nifty thing to have. I'm sure the utility would like to invest in a sensor such as that as it can help prevent failures etc. There are plenty of non-profit research groups out there that would jump on something like this. Just contact a transmissions person, depending on what kinda power plant you work at, generations, nuclear etc it could be worth while.
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Steve Conner
Wed Feb 09 2011, 11:09AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Well, I work for one of these groups, except it's definitely for profit. smile

Busbar temperatures are usually monitored with a thermal imaging camera. The cameras are expensive, about $10k, but the utility hires someone else to do it. They come in with the camera, go home and write a report.
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GhostNull
Wed Feb 09 2011, 11:47AM
GhostNull Registered Member #2648 Joined: Sun Jan 24 2010, 12:45PM
Location: Australia
Posts: 291
Linear seem to have the exact ICs for your purpose.

Linear Tech wrote ...

Energy Harvester Produces Power
from Local Environment, Eliminating
Batteries in Wireless Sensors


Advances in low power technology are making it easier to create
wireless sensor networks in a wide range of applications, from
remote sensing to HVAC monitoring, asset tracking and industrial
automation. The problem is that even wireless sensors require
batteries that must be regularly replaced—a costly and cumbersome
maintenance project. A better wireless power solution would be to
harvest ambient mechanical, thermal or electromagnetic energy from
the sensor’s local environment

Look here: Link2 and here: Link2,C1,C1799,P90393
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scrooch
Sat Feb 12 2011, 04:47AM
scrooch Registered Member #908 Joined: Wed Jul 18 2007, 05:53AM
Location:
Posts: 49
GhostNull wrote ...

Linear seem to have the exact ICs for your purpose.

Linear Tech wrote ...

Energy Harvester Produces Power
from Local Environment, Eliminating
Batteries in Wireless Sensors


Advances in low power technology are making it easier to create
wireless sensor networks in a wide range of applications, from
remote sensing to HVAC monitoring, asset tracking and industrial
automation. The problem is that even wireless sensors require
batteries that must be regularly replaced—a costly and cumbersome
maintenance project. A better wireless power solution would be to
harvest ambient mechanical, thermal or electromagnetic energy from
the sensor’s local environment


wow that was exactly what i was looking for. thanks.





Look here: Link2 and here: Link2,C1,C1799,P90393
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mikeselectricstuff
Wed Feb 16 2011, 04:54PM
mikeselectricstuff Registered Member #311 Joined: Sun Mar 12 2006, 08:28PM
Location:
Posts: 253
wrote ...
Busbar temperatures are usually monitored with a thermal imaging camera. The cameras are expensive, about $10k, but the utility hires someone else to do it. They come in with the camera, go home and write a report.

There isn't going to be much temperature gradient along a big busbar so imaging is probably overkill, except maybe if you need to check heating at multiple connections.

You can get IR thermometers way cheaper than TI cameras - <$100. There are some industrial IR thermometer products designed for fixed monitoring in process control- this may be a better option than contact measurement.

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