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Whats the absolute smallest flyback ever?

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Alex Smith

Fri Nov 26 2010, 12:12PM

Registered Member #3258 Joined: Wed Sept 29 2010, 06:25PM
Location: Ascot, UK
Posts: 25

Hi there guys, just wondering if anyone knows how to make a miniature flyback (or other HV transformer) which can fit in a zippo? ideally powered by a 5.5V supercap (maybe like this clicky). I was just browsing the site and came across this thread which seems to have fizzled out clicky. Hehe I thought it would be quite cool (understatement) to try and create an arcing zippo lighter :D

Proud Mary

Fri Nov 26 2010, 12:36PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

A piezoelectric cigarette lighter could form the basis of your device: I would guess they produce 10kV and perhaps a little more.

Pinky's Brain

Fri Nov 26 2010, 02:46PM

Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
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Posts: 837

Xenon trigger transformers.

Proud Mary

Fri Nov 26 2010, 03:03PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

I've got a very small coil for a lawn mower somewhere, and will post a photo of it if I can find it.

1n5ane

Fri Nov 26 2010, 04:05PM

Registered Member #3283 Joined: Wed Oct 06 2010, 11:03PM
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 29

Have you looked into "pen sized" stun guns? They are pretty compact so you should be able to adapt the circuitry to fit inside your zippo. They are also designed to arc so you won't need to worry about burning something out.

Although stun guns may be illegal in your country, the circuitry/innards aren't; you can probably get someone (in the states) to buy one and send you the guts...

Proud Mary

Fri Nov 26 2010, 05:00PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

1n5ane wrote ...

Have you looked into "pen sized" stun guns? They are pretty compact so you should be able to adapt the circuitry to fit inside your zippo. They are also designed to arc so you won't need to worry about burning something out.

Although stun guns may be illegal in your country, the circuitry/innards aren't; you can probably get someone (in the states) to buy one and send you the guts...

Firearms Act 1968 as amended

Section 5 (1) (b) any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid gas or other thing. Generally stun guns or electric shock devices,

Section 5 (1) (A)(a) any firearm which is disguised as another object e.g. pen guns, key fob guns and phone guns.

"component parts" - R v Clarke (F) 82 Cr App R.308 CA states that the component part of a prohibited weapon is itself a prohibited weapon.

R v Ashton, CA, 1 February 2007 seems to suggest that any part that stops the weapon functioning as it was designed would be a component part:

"Whether in fact this particular gas plug is a component part of a prohibited weapon, is a matter of fact for the court to decide ... the words have their ordinary natural meaning. ... as a matter of reasonable interpretation it means a part that is manufactured to the purpose ... screw or washer, would not be a component part for present purposes. Similarly, a component part must be a part that if it were removed, the Gun could not function without it."

Source: Crown Prosecution Service

Adam Munich

Fri Nov 26 2010, 05:56PM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

I have one that is 1.5cm cubed, but I have no clue where to look to find it.

Also use a LiPo instead of a supercap. The supercap will last all of one second.

Alex Smith

Fri Nov 26 2010, 06:11PM

Registered Member #3258 Joined: Wed Sept 29 2010, 06:25PM
Location: Ascot, UK
Posts: 25

Cheers guys (and girls)!
LiPo it is then ;)
Would any of these be suitable (minimax or neonizer or maybe the CHARGE1 charger)? Clicky.
How many volts would it take to arc across a distance of less than a centimetre?
Fitting it in a zippo may be a struggle by the sound of things, maybe ill just try and make a prototype circuit and then find a way of squeezing it all in later...

EDIT: Xenon triggers. Would these be able to handle a constant current? Anyway they need 170V in which may be a struggle..?

Adam Munich

Fri Nov 26 2010, 06:31PM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

Well there are different ways to make an arc. One is to to bring the electrodes close enough that a spark happens, and the arc can be pulled away. Current is what keeps the arc going and what makes it thick and juicy. The voltage determines the maximum distance that an arc will self-ignite. It depends on humitiy but 1mm/kV is a good rule of thumb.

Arcs are unstable and will extinguish due to airflow. Ones that have been drawn can't self-ignite, so you'll want an arc that can. This means if you want an 8mm spark gap to light you're smokes, you'll want a 10kV supply.

Don't buy things from amazing1, they are ridiculously overpriced. For example, that "Universal High Voltage Modular Power Supply" is only a compact florescent lamp driver, things that can be bought new for 5 bux.

Plus, nothing there would fit in a zippo anyway.

I wouldn't count on a xenon trigger to last very long. You want 10kv at 2-5 mA for your lighter, not an easy feat to miniaturize, but it can be done. I would recommend searching for a "longer" zippo-like case to give you more room.

Alex Smith

Fri Nov 26 2010, 06:54PM

Registered Member #3258 Joined: Wed Sept 29 2010, 06:25PM
Location: Ascot, UK
Posts: 25

Hmm so how to get 10kV from only a few in a compact package.
Unfortunately i'm a student so i cant buy the plans ;)
316xopd

Is it possible to wind a tiny coil myself? Could I use the initial HV voltage pulse from the piezoelectric trigger to initiate the arc and then a lower voltage to maintain the arc? (Is that what you mean Mary?)

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