Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Thu Sept 17 2009, 08:24PM
It have been a long time since I first saw a DRSSTC in action and immediately fell in love, but knowing damn well I at that point was in no state to build one, or simply just understand it works.
Many moons have passed, many threads and fewer books have been read, hopefully it will have paid off to wait with building one till I felt it was time :)
Greatest inspiration for this coil must be Steve Wards DRSSTC-1
updated:
6th November 2010
Specifications Resonant frequency
Around 70 KHz
Secondary
160 mm diameter x 605 mm height , 2200 turns of 0.25 mm enamelled wire
Topload
630 diameter x 130 mm ducting diameter, dryer ducting, this is subject to change
Primary
320 mm diameter x 150 mm height, 9 turns of 10 mm copper piping ~ 28,27 mm^2, tapped at 5.5
Bridge
Fullbridge of IXGN60N60C2D1 IGBTs, SOT-227 package
150 mm length x 80 mm width x 90 mm height, 1 KG of heatsink
2 x 3300uF 450V BHC capacitors for 6600uF bridge filtering. (each: ESR 39mOhm@100Hz, Z 27mOhm@10kHz and 53A Iripple@70KHz@50 Degrees celcius)
MMC
6 Strings of 2, 942C20P15K-F
0.45 uF rated 4000 V and 81 A Irms
Timeline20th March 2009
Bought 30x IXGN60N60C2D1 from digikey usa, import taxes etc almost killed me
7th April 2009
Bought 60x 942C20P15K-F capacitors through dr.spark, again hello import taxes
15th May 2009
Bought heatsinks cheap from germany
19th May 2009
Started converting Wards latest drsstc driver to single sided board
23rd July 2009
Started 3D designing the fullbridge
It is bulky, on 2 heatsinks with capacitors between them, its too big and needs to be overhauled.
23rd August 2009
Redesigned the fullbridge
The two IGBTs in the middle are turned 180 degrees to have the supply at one side of the heatsink and output on the other, it got compact, neat and only one overlap with busbar, I am very happy with this design.
24th August 2009
Made a spreadsheet to ease experimenting with different DRSSTC settings, this was also a try to collect some of the different theory and put it side by side, it might not all make sense
27th August 2009
Bought 50 meter of 10 mm copper tubing, two drain pipes 160 mm diameter x 1000 mm and 1,5 mm copper sheet.
Also in the picture there is worth noticing the current transformers harvested from industrial Siemens overcurrent protectors, they are for 690VAC 200A, but might be useful at higher frequencies, this will show later on, they do look like 1000 turn.
8th September 2009
Finished converting
Wards latest drsstc driver to single sided board
12nd September 2009
Finished assembling the single side board ward drsstc driver
16th September 2009
Etched, assembled, tested and housed interrupter with burst mode
19th September 2009
Cut out busbar from copper sheet and assembled IGBTs, heatsink, capacitors with busbar, home made 8mm brass spacers are used. Leads to the primary are 16mm^2 stranded 90 Degree celcius machine tool wire.
25th September 2009
Found a aluminum box and transformer for the driver, wound a GDT and started preparing decoupling capacitors, TVS and zeners for the bridge.
With all the wonderful theory about GDTs in the wiki, it would be a shame not to check it out instead of just going for a high permeability core with 10 turns on CAT5 cable. So here goes
Its a Epcos ringcore, material: N30, good up to 5MHz, Aemm^2: 95,89, AL: 5750nH
Inductance with 10 turns: L = AL * N^2 = 5750 * 10^2 = 575 uH
Peak current: Ipeak = (Vin * t * D) / Lmag = (24 * (70000/1000000) * 0,5) / (575 * 10^-6) = 1460 mA
Irms = Ipeak * 0,577 = 842 mA
Minimum number of turns needed to avoid saturation
t, 50% duty cycle = (1 / 70000) / 2 = 7,3*10^-6
Nmin = ( V x t ) / ( B x Ae ) = (12 * (7,3*10^-6)) / (0,2 * (95,89*10^-6)) = 4,6 turns
Current needed to drive a single 60N60 IGBT gate
I = ( C * V ) / t = ((3,9*10^-6) * 24) / (7,3*10^-6) = 12,8 mA, including magnetising current, double this figure.
So it all seems to have overhead enough to drive a full bridge.
3rd October 2009
Started on contruction of the MMC
10th October 2009
Made the round platform plates for the coil to be built on, they were cut out from 19 mm MDF wood plates with a modified router, also shown in the picture, very neat for making circular cuts.
11th October 2009
Finished MMC construction, features a 80 mm fan that delivers 30 cubicmeters/hour of air.
5th November 2009
Debugged PCB design of the driver
Tested driver and interrupter on a small DRSSTC I put together just for testing purpose, blew the half bridge when I ran it in CW without feedback, I guess there is no way I could have treated that poor little coil any worse...
12th December 2009
Made primary form and winded the primary coil onto it, with a strike rail and mounted on the upper platform, took me 1½ hours just to wind the coil through the holes and also spend quite some WD40 :D
The coil is a true helical coil with 4 mm steps between the supports
27th March 2010
It sucks to wind around half a secondary to learn that you used a ruler with 2 scales and you starter with 100 mm offset in the wrong direction...
The second try on the secondary was winded in 2 hours using my new coil winder rig, its 2200 turns of 0,25 mm enamelled wire on a 160 mm diameter pipe, winding length is 605 mm, its currently hardening its second layer of varnish till I get time to visit my parents again as its staying at their garage while getting varnished.
2nd August 2010
I made a fitting piece for holding the CTs as the cable shoes were too wide to go through the CTs
7th August 2010
Today I assempled some of the parts on the platform, its beginning to look like a DRSSTC! Also I painted it black some weeks ago!
Its all wheels under the bridge...
9th September 2010
The topload is done, measuring 130 x 620 mm, made from aluminium ducting on a wooden form, smoothed with filler for metal and covered in aluminium tape.
17th October 2010
Final testing of driver features, got a 555 acting as a feedback at 70KHz while my signal generator is used to simulate over current input signal.
Test setup of the nopw ready to run coil! Still need some minor details before its finished :)
FIRST LIGHT! YIPEE!
5th November 2010
150 centimeter long sparks! Running from 250VAC in at 10A, 9 cycles ~200-225uS on-time, 500A limiter.
Video!
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
brtaman, Thu Sept 17 2009, 08:28PM
Looking good Mads!
Looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you, can't wait to see your finished product! Your going to use the DRSSTC1 driver, correct?
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Thu Sept 17 2009, 08:50PM
brtaman wrote ...
Looking good Mads!
Looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you, can't wait to see your finished product! Your going to use the DRSSTC1 driver, correct?
The board you can see in the picture with materials is actually wards latest driver, further pictures, layout files etc will be posted once its debugged etc :)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sat Sept 19 2009, 12:04PM
Updated thread with additional information and pictures of:
Bridge
Interrupter
Driver
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Bennem, Sat Sept 19 2009, 07:24PM
Wow....some nice work!!
i think Steve got some 70-80 inch sparks from his DRSSTC-1 too!
look forward to more updates,
All the best,
Mel
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Coronafix, Sun Sept 20 2009, 02:45AM
Always love your work Mads, nice bridge!
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
MRacerxdl, Mon Sept 21 2009, 12:17AM
Very good work! I cant wait to see some sparks from that coil!
Keep good working =)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Wed Oct 14 2009, 07:11PM
Updated the thread with further bridge work, GDT and MMC construction and the start of the platform.
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
brtaman, Fri Oct 16 2009, 09:59AM
Great bridge design, inductance kept at a minimum! How do you keep your copper looking so clean? Did you apply anything to it?
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Killa-X, Fri Oct 16 2009, 07:04PM
brtaman wrote ...
Great bridge design, inductance kept at a minimum! How do you keep your copper looking so clean? Did you apply anything to it?
I wondered the same thing...How do you do it? I know some people told me you could apply even a thin coating of varnish to it, clear varnish, to protect it...but this doesn't appear to be the case.
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
GluD, Fri Oct 16 2009, 09:00PM
Hes from the military, so he probably polish it like his boots :D
Kickass looking bridge indeed, I might just have to sneak by and see it in action some time in the future.
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sat Oct 17 2009, 01:22PM
Killa-X wrote ...
brtaman wrote ...
Great bridge design, inductance kept at a minimum! How do you keep your copper looking so clean? Did you apply anything to it?
I wondered the same thing...How do you do it? I know some people told me you could apply even a thin coating of varnish to it, clear varnish, to protect it...but this doesn't appear to be the case.
Its just copper, but I do wear gloves when handling it to avoid too many finger prints, so the best advice is to avoid getting it dirty :)
The next couple of pieces in the puzzle will be getting a function generator on the 1st of next month so i can test the driver, building a winder rig and get busy on the secondary coil.
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Z28Fistergod, Sat Oct 17 2009, 02:24PM
What did you use to cut the busbars? It looks really neat, like machine cut.
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sat Oct 17 2009, 04:03PM
Z28Fistergod wrote ...
What did you use to cut the busbars? It looks really neat, like machine cut.
Thanks for those kind words, as I only used a hacksaw, file and vise :)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Killa-X, Sun Oct 18 2009, 07:28PM
Well. So if I use gloves on copper, I won't have issues with it getting dirty? I thought naturally over time, the copper tends to ge less shine to t, and gets dull until you polish it with something. But if I handle it with gloves, should be fine?
Also, how close are you getting this tesla to finish :). What's your to-do list so far? :D
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sun Oct 18 2009, 07:44PM
Killa-X wrote ...
Well. So if I use gloves on copper, I won't have issues with it getting dirty? I thought naturally over time, the copper tends to ge less shine to t, and gets dull until you polish it with something. But if I handle it with gloves, should be fine?
Also, how close are you getting this tesla to finish :). What's your to-do list so far? :D
It will ofcourse get dull over time due to oxidation, but leaving no fingerprints makes it look even in the entire surface.
The todo list is long
Build platform
Wind secondary
Build Topload
Test driver
Assemble everything
Build rectifier and mains section
Build primary coil and forms
There is lots to do :)
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Z28Fistergod, Tue Oct 20 2009, 01:22AM
Mads Barnkob wrote ...
Thanks for those kind words, as I only used a hacksaw, file and vise :)
I took a look at the enlarged picture and I'm not sure I believe you!
Thats some real attention to detail, it must have taken a long time with a file to get those edges so nice.
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sun Dec 13 2009, 12:23PM
Updated thread with driver debugging and primary construction, hopefully I will get busy winding the secondary doing the holidays :)
Till then I will work at installing the bridge, drivers, different supplies and power section etc on the platform.
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Mon Mar 29 2010, 04:43PM
Updated main post with picture and information about the fresh out of the oven secondary
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Luca, Mon Mar 29 2010, 07:37PM
Hi
I have seen from your spreadsheet that you are planning to run your bridge with a peak current of 800A. Do you think that these devices can withstand such current (rated peak is 300A...) I'm asking because I'm planning a DRSSTC based on the same IGBT (I'have just bought it
)
Also, isn't your MMC undersized in terms of peak voltage? With 800A peak and 5.85 sprimary impedance you will have 4680V peak on the caps... So, you will ned a MMC with a DC rating of about 9300V (two times the peak voltage).
Anyway, very good job! Congrats!
Reagards,
Luca
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Tue Mar 30 2010, 04:19AM
Hey Luca
The 800A figure could we call my maximum safe point for short runs, ward ran 40N60 miniblocks at 1000A.
The MMC could use some funding, but I had to make a small one to start with because of the economics, I am considering going for a 6kV rated instead which will be 27 capacitors instead of 12 or possible go slighty down in capacity. 8kV would be 48 capacitors, its not cheap to go for a high capacity mmc :)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Luca, Tue Mar 30 2010, 07:10AM
[quote]
Thanks for the info... My coil will be a bit smaller than yours, I think that I will set max peak current around 600A...
Regards,
Luca
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Joyeep, Wed May 12 2010, 02:12AM
这个没有下文了�
很期待作å“的进度啊
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Coronafix, Wed May 12 2010, 04:05AM
I believe he said:
This is not below it?'m Looking forward to the progress of the work ah
Any new work done Mads?
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Wed May 12 2010, 08:22AM
My father gives the secondary some varnish once in a while, I think its at 6 layers now.
The next thing is the toroid, it will be 120 mm aluminium ducting on a wooden form, using wall filler to get a even surface and covering it with aluminium tape.
Progress is somewhat slow as I am packing down all my stuff and moving to a new apartment, also my tube amp slash girlfriend have been taking a great deal of my attention :)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sat Aug 07 2010, 10:33PM
Updated with a few new things made on the coil :)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Thu Sept 09 2010, 09:09PM
Added a picture and information about my freshly made topload :)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Luca, Fri Sept 10 2010, 07:47AM
Very nice job!
Are you still planning to use IXYS 60N60 IGBTs?
I'm just curious to know how many amps you will be able to push through those devices...
Regards,
Luca
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Fri Sept 10 2010, 02:00PM
Luca wrote ...
Very nice job!
Are you still planning to use IXYS 60N60 IGBTs?
I'm just curious to know how many amps you will be able to push through those devices...
Regards,
Luca
Thanks :)
I will still be using the IXGN60N60C2D1 IGBTs, I will keep at a modest 500A to start with and try to push them later when I get a predikter driver on my hands
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Dr. H., Fri Sept 10 2010, 02:25PM
Beautiful work Mads !
Love the bridge design !
Cheers
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Coronafix, Sat Sept 11 2010, 04:38AM
Your work is stunning Mads!!!
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sun Oct 17 2010, 09:59AM
FIRST LIGHT!
Check out the first post for pictures of test and video from first light!
I AM HAPPY :D
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
GluD, Sun Oct 17 2010, 09:21PM
Sure looks good
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
dingo27, Wed Oct 20 2010, 02:22PM
Nice coil, but...
Mads Barnkob wrote ...
With all the wonderful theory about GDTs in the wiki, it would be a shame not to check it out instead of just going for a high permeability core with 10 turns on CAT5 cable. So here goes
Its a Epcos ringcore, material: N30, good up to 5MHz, Aemm^2: 95,89, AL: 5750nH
Inductance with 10 turns: L = AL * N^2 = 5750 * 10^2 = 575 uH
...on pic there is actually 11 turns, no?
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Thu Oct 21 2010, 08:34AM
dingo27 wrote ...
Nice coil, but...
Mads Barnkob wrote ...
With all the wonderful theory about GDTs in the wiki, it would be a shame not to check it out instead of just going for a high permeability core with 10 turns on CAT5 cable. So here goes
Its a Epcos ringcore, material: N30, good up to 5MHz, Aemm^2: 95,89, AL: 5750nH
Inductance with 10 turns: L = AL * N^2 = 5750 * 10^2 = 575 uH
...on pic there is actually 11 turns, no?
At most 10,5 :)
But it doesn't matter, it works like a beauty!
Thanks for the kind words from all of you :)
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Steve Conner, Thu Oct 21 2010, 11:42AM
It's impossible to have a half turn on a toroid core! :P
Every time the wire goes through the hole in the middle, that is one turn.
Coil looks nice btw
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Raka, Sat Oct 23 2010, 09:23PM
Steve will you please explain to me why you say that it is impossible to have half a turn on a toroid? I find that a toroid with a conductor just passing straight through the middle have significantly less inductance that when the conductor loops through the toroid (still passing only once through the middel)
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
ScotchTapeLord, Sun Oct 24 2010, 02:05AM
I wondered the same thing at one point. There is some bit of explanation here:
My thought is that the extra inductance is leakage due to wire geometry.
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Luca, Sun Oct 24 2010, 08:47PM
Raka wrote ...
Steve will you please explain to me why you say that it is impossible to have half a turn on a toroid? I find that a toroid with a conductor just passing straight through the middle have significantly less inductance that when the conductor loops through the toroid (still passing only once through the middel)
That's not true. Only the part of the conductor that pass into the "hole" of the toroid creates magnetic flux into the core. The parts of the coil which stay out of the hole does not create flux into the core.
regards,
Luca
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Raka, Mon Oct 25 2010, 07:13PM
Thanks for the link Scotch. It helped, although I stil find it very un-intuitive.
Luca, Ill start a new thread in the general Science and Electronics forum to post snapshots of the test setup I used, if you would like to explain it further.
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sat Nov 06 2010, 08:19PM
5th November 2010
150 centimeter long sparks! Running from 250VAC in at 10A, 9 cycles ~200-225uS on-time, 500A limiter.
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Dalus, Sat Nov 06 2010, 08:22PM
That's a very good result for so little primary current. Job well done :) Now you just need a second one running out of phase
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Dr. H., Sat Nov 06 2010, 09:36PM
Beautiful work Mads ! Love that ground spark
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sat Nov 06 2010, 09:59PM
Thanks guys :)
I actually did plan from the start to build twins, but might upgrade the silicon first... and use this bridge in a smaller coil.
I got a video of the stress test uploaded, rest will have to await time for editing :)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Coronafix, Sun Nov 07 2010, 11:36AM
Looks good Mads, but mind those racing sparks. They can damage your secondary.
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sun Nov 07 2010, 01:25PM
Coronafix wrote ...
Looks good Mads, but mind those racing sparks. They can damage your secondary.
I am aware of the problems, I need to make a ring to put under the secondary to lower the coupling. Some of the strikes are directly from the topload to the strikering, the topload is not completely smooth... so they will occur.
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Luca, Sun Nov 07 2010, 03:24PM
Good results Mads!
I wonder if you trip your OCD frequently or not, since 500A seems to be quite a low value given the size of your coil...
Regards,
Luca
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Sun Nov 07 2010, 09:14PM
Luca wrote ...
Good results Mads!
I wonder if you trip your OCD frequently or not, since 500A seems to be quite a low value given the size of your coil...
Regards,
Luca
The OCD is only tripping at ground strikes or high BPS, I am not going over 500A limit due to experience from other forum users with the IXGN60N60C2D1 IGBTs.
I will eventually upgrade the bridge with CM300.
Re:
Kaizer DRSSTC I
Mads Barnkob, Mon Nov 15 2010, 10:21PM
I have added all the relevant pictures of the construction of the coil and much more spark pictures to my site:
Hopefully I will soon be able to do the first midi test and a upgrade of the bridge might just be around the corner... :)
Re: Kaizer DRSSTC I
Goodchild, Sat Nov 20 2010, 05:30AM
Ive been following your build for a while now and I must say fantastic work.
Just wanted to offer some input, you may benefit from a flat primary. I started with a helical primary
on my first DRSSTC and had similar problems with racing sparks and toroid to strike rail arcs. I switched
to a flat primary and all of these problems were eliminated.
Ether way great performance at 500A primary current! Keep up the great work.