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Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
Proud Mary you're right about having some extra winding room.
I at first decided to go with 28 gauge wire, but when I started winding it, I realized that I just wasn't getting as many turns as I thought I could.
So I had to abandon it and decide to either do some more machining on the plastic or use smaller wire...so I switched to 30 gauge wire. I didn't want to give up copper, but the thought of more cutting scared me.
Anyway, right now it's about half way done, and I also found out that lots of tension on the wire (and constant tension) is an absolute must. So far it's going pretty good but not quite as neat as I had hoped.
If I can successfully complete it (and that's a big if) I'll post a picture here.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
Ok I finally got one coil wound.
Many of the segments turned out to be "semi random wound", meaning they're not as nice and neat as I had hoped for, but I think it'll work ok.
The ends of the winding are secured with a drop of "krazy glue".
I'm still debating whether or not I should try to pot the coil...theoretically I shouldn't have to but I might just pot it anyway for the sake of the experience.
Maybe tomorrow I'll try to do some quick electrical tests and if so post the results.
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
jpsmith123 wrote ...
I at first decided to go with 28 gauge wire, but when I started winding it, I realized that I just wasn't getting as many turns as I thought I could.
hey im doing exactly the same thing with a PE bobbin and 35Ga wire. i worrry about the same problem of calculated wire turns and actual wire turns per channel. related to your above quote, can you give us an estimate on what you were getting... like 60%, 70% actual turns over theoretical, and such? and i geuss your semi-random wind is the best most of us will be able to do, so just an approximation would do.
that work youve done so far is excellent, mine will be under oil, as solid potting prevents changes/fixes.
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
At the risk of stating the obvious, if you have calculated your windings on the basis of copper wire tables, ensure that the figures refer to the wire plus enamel (or whatever) coating.
Unless you are completely certain of your wire's insulated diameter, measure it at a number of points with a micrometer, and use the average figure in calculation, PLUS a contingency margin as I suggested above.
And now you know what sort of problem it is, the easiest approach in future is to do a trial winding over a mandrel, and count the number of turns per cm actually achieved in practice.
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Proud Mary wrote ...
At the risk of stating the obvious, if you have calculated your windings on the basis of copper wire tables, ensure that the figures refer to the wire plus enamel (or whatever) coating.
Unless you are completely certain of your wire's insulated diameter, measure it at a number of points with a micrometer, and use the average figure in calculation, PLUS a contingency margin as I suggested above.
And now you know what sort of problem it is, the easiest approach in future is to do a trial winding over a mandrel, and count the number of turns per cm actually achieved in practice.
yes i account for wire diamater and id just like to have a comparison to someone elses work for a sanity check.
i use a program from wiretron.com, for bare copper 35ga i get: 0.0055" min 0.0056" nom 0.0057" max
with heavy (double) insulation: i get min build of 0.0009" therefore: 0.0064" min 0.0067" nom 0.0070" max
the wiretron.com download is free too.
i dont think the 1/10,000" accuracy matters much, so i just use te 0.0067" nominal value for winding calcs.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
I didn't have a micrometer, but I had a digital caliper which I used.
For my calculations, I added 10% to the wire diameter.
I should say I believe that my failure to get enough turns with the 28 gauge wire was primarily because of my inability to wind the coil as neatly as I would have liked.
And part of the neatness problem was due to some momentary lapses of tension (on the wire) while winding.
@Patrick: What kind of coil are you winding, a single layer coil?
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
jpsmith123 wrote ...
For my calculations, I added 10% to the wire diameter.
yes, i add 10% too.
jpsmith123 wrote ...
I should say I believe that my failure to get enough turns with the 28 gauge wire was primarily because of my inability to wind the coil as neatly as I would have liked.
yes, i have this problem too.
jpsmith123 wrote ...
And part of the neatness problem was due to some momentary lapses of tension (on the wire) while winding.
ok, maybe a jig is needed, going to have to build one.
jpsmith123 wrote ...
@Patrick: What kind of coil are you winding, a single layer coil?
the same as yours, a pie-channel type, but instead of turning on a lathe im using overhead projection sheets to make the "grooves" so i gain space for the wire top to bottom change over groove; then yours with your small groove and wide walls your loosing alot of winding space, but youve realized this fact in your above posts.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
Patrick I'm a little bit confused as to exactly how you're doing it.
As I understand it, you're using a polyethylene tube, and sheets for an overhead projector, but I'm not sure exactly what you're doing with the sheets. Are you cutting the sheets into narrow strips and winding them on the PE tube to make "dividers" somehow?
You don't have a picture of it or anything, do you?
(BTW, I also thought of another possibility: back to the teflon coated wire idea, but winding it in, say, 4 sections. That approach might work, but it would be a real PITA to have to make the large CPVC washers, i.e., dividers, from flat stock).
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
The PE is a temporary form.
Im looking for pics on my Hard drive now. i think i left the original protoype at my parents place. maybe i have an autocad rendering i can post.
anyway, no i dont cut them into strips. i cut templates and stack them like washers on a bolt shaft. the templates are printed by laser printer (cut with razor blades so theres no toner on the final pieces.) Then stacked, wound, stacked... and so on with the sheets 0.0045" thick.
ive had problem getting the channels and winding staying uniform.
Registered Member #1321
Joined: Sat Feb 16 2008, 03:22AM
Location:
Posts: 843
Hmmm I guess it's just one of those things that I'll have to see a picture of, before I understand it.
Anyway, I just started winding the second coil, and it's amazing how much better (and faster) it's going, based simply on the experience gained from the first one.
I almost feel like making a few extra ones, so I can pick out the best.
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Grooved Bobbins For Segmented Windings
