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Chlorate boosters for thermite

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LAN_403

thermite

Sat Feb 23 2008, 03:20AM

Banned on 02/27/2008
Registered Member #1326 Joined: Sun Feb 17 2008, 11:19PM
Location:
Posts: 49

I know its said we know a lot about thermite.

The reaction is trivial to write, just like atom bomb U235 + neutrons = fissile products + energy.

It is not trivial to conduct reaction by design and safely.

Those who know it guard their knowledge jealously. those who get to learn from the national labs at the expense of tax payer money deny those very tax payers knowledge and consider it their personal property and jealously agitate and smoulder at the spread of knowledge.

So let me take it piece by piece.

If the literature is not meant to mislead, then chlorate boosters are mentioned a lot.

I have heard stories where someone milling potassium perchlorate KClO3 with MnO2 blew his hand. Recall this was the common mixture for the lab prep of oxygen.

I am hoping for a collective effort to first understand rigorously the properties, structure and nature of these chlorates and their efficient preparation.

I am sure there are tons of papers in JACS, and scandinavia and germany where the europeans developed this technology using the money stolen from various colonies of lesser races in asia and africa.

cheers

Its time for sharing back.

As I said, there is a virtual apartheid in the US. The public libraries have what should really be called porn or adult books and movies.

There is very little technical resources. Not even the american journals are available online in public libraries. you have to be member of that exclusive club of government contractors to get the funds for those resources.

cheers

Billybobjoe

Sat Feb 23 2008, 04:54PM

Registered Member #396 Joined: Wed Apr 19 2006, 12:55AM
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 176

Call me ignorant, but I nearly every post you have made on these forums so far has been unclear to me. Perhaps a lesson on English composition and organization would help? I think maybe what you're trying to say makes sense in your mind but when typed it ends up with huge gaps in information and no actual questions.

Also, every post seems to have some sort of rant on your thermite 9/11 conspiracy theory. Just a tip - I am not a mod but I've lurked on the forums enough to sense a ban if you keep this up. I'm sure there are forums that deal with this topic - but 4HV is not one of them, and no one seems to be buying into the theory.

EDIT - I just noticed your signature thread - perhaps this response would best be put there.

Shaun

Sat Feb 23 2008, 08:45PM

Registered Member #690 Joined: Tue May 08 2007, 03:47AM
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 616

Thanks for saying what I and I'm sure many others have been thinking, Billybobjoe. Sorry to start off on such an off-topic note, thermite, but I really am not sure what you are trying to find out here...

thermite

Sat Feb 23 2008, 09:16PM

Banned on 02/27/2008
Registered Member #1326 Joined: Sun Feb 17 2008, 11:19PM
Location:
Posts: 49

rant against freedom of speech ignored (only 2/60 complainers to suppress truth of "Benjamin Freedman speech" from views at this time). refocus activated. I have gotten supporting PMs also against this blatant attempt at CENSORSHIP.
======
I know its said we know a lot about thermite.

The reaction is trivial to write, just like atom bomb U235 + neutrons = fissile products + energy.

It is not trivial to conduct reaction by design and safely.

Those who know it guard their knowledge jealously. those who get to learn from the national labs at the expense of tax payer money deny those very tax payers knowledge and consider it their personal property and jealously agitate and smoulder at the spread of knowledge.

So let me take it piece by piece.

If the literature is not meant to mislead, then chlorate boosters are mentioned a lot.

I have heard stories where someone milling potassium perchlorate KClO3 with MnO2 blew his hand. Recall this was the common mixture for the lab prep of oxygen.

I am hoping for a collective effort to first understand rigorously the properties, structure and nature of these chlorates and their efficient preparation.

I am sure there are tons of papers in JACS, and scandinavia and germany where the europeans developed this technology using the money stolen from various colonies of lesser races in asia and africa.

cheers

Its time for sharing back.

As I said, there is a virtual apartheid in the US. The public libraries have what should really be called porn or adult books and movies.

There is very little technical resources. Not even the american journals are available online in public libraries. you have to be member of that exclusive club of government contractors to get the funds for those resources.

cheers

Weston

Sat Feb 23 2008, 10:40PM

Registered Member #1316 Joined: Thu Feb 14 2008, 03:35AM
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 365

did you just repeat the same message

? i agree with shaun. what is this thread about? will some admin just come and lock it allready?

Shaun

Sun Feb 24 2008, 04:01AM

Registered Member #690 Joined: Tue May 08 2007, 03:47AM
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 616

To be fair, when I saw the thread title "Chlorate boosters for thermite" I thought:

"Well, I know about thermite, and I know about chlorates, and I'm going to college for chem engineering; this is probably something I could contribute to or should keep up on."

But this 9/11 conspiracy stuff just puts me off. It may be a topic worthy of discussion, but not here. This site is mainly for topics related to amateur science, and I'm glad to be part of it.

You say: "I am hoping for a collective effort to first understand rigorously the properties, structure and nature of these chlorates and their efficient preparation."

If you want to know the structure of a chlorate, try google. If you want to know preparation, boil some bleach.

There is a lot of cumulative knowledge here, and I'm sure those people would be glad to help if they didn't have to wade through the "Thermate-9/11-Dr. Jones-Conspiracy" swamp. I have nothing against you or freedom, but seriously, cool down man.

EDIT: I have no intention of getting into a flamewar, so this will be my last post to this thread barring a serious overhaul of the topic.

thermite

Sun Feb 24 2008, 07:56AM

Banned on 02/27/2008
Registered Member #1326 Joined: Sun Feb 17 2008, 11:19PM
Location:
Posts: 49

It is interesting that perchloric acid is more stable than the chloric acid, and therefore the KClO4 is more stable than KClO3. Is this instability only under acid conditions and not under base conditions ? can the chlorate be stabilized by adding lime or magnesia ? Any data on that ?

Why arent they using boosters of perchlorate ?

from wiki:
Calcium hypochlorite is a chemical compound with formula Ca(ClO)2. It is widely used for water treatment and as a bleaching agent (bleaching powder). This chemical is considered to be relatively stable and has greater available chlorine than sodium hypochlorite (liquid bleach).

why cant we use this as a booster ?

or the anhydrous calcium chlorate ?

We are getting close to the answers despite interruptions :)

rp181

Sun Feb 24 2008, 02:53PM

Registered Member #1062 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2007, 02:01AM
Location:
Posts: 1529

interesting bleach should be brought up. I was reading about it yesterday, it says its an oxidiser. Does this mean it can be used for rocket propellants?

ramses

Sun Feb 24 2008, 07:33PM

Registered Member #1208 Joined: Thu Jan 03 2008, 05:30PM
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 154

rp181- As i recall, it decays into NaCl (salt) and NaClO3, (sodium chlorate. so you end up with like 1 part chlorate and 5 parts salt. see this for details. other parts of that site violate the rules, but that page doesn't.

and thermite, depending on how much chlorate is added, you may just end up with a blend of uber sensitive flash powder and thermite...

ramses

Backyard Skunkworks

Sun Feb 24 2008, 07:54PM

Registered Member #1262 Joined: Fri Jan 25 2008, 05:22AM
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 451

Sodium chlorate is pretty unstable I think, I remember one of Jolly Rogers' files talking about it as being pretty unstable and if EVEN HE thought it should be treated with respect it's gotta be pretty damn nasty, Jolly Roger was never one for good safety practices and as a result he lost a hand a few years ago. The MSDS lists it as a contact explosive!

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