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NI3 - taboo? Discuss?

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GreySoul

Sun Feb 25 2007, 02:39AM

Registered Member #546 Joined: Fri Feb 23 2007, 11:43PM
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 239

Since I'm new here and didnt see it listed elsewhere, I have to ask if discussions of NI3 are acceptable here? It seems like a pretty harmless prank compound when made in very small batches...but what do I know? (well... I'm still alive... but I digress)

If so, has anyone made it, any tips? saftey suggestions not listed on the plethora of sites dealing with how to make the stuff? Looking for first hand experiance, not "I had a friend who made it..." like most sites offer.

I ask because i just got my hands on some iodine crystals, and besides a really nice purple pigment I want to make, I will have plenty left over for mischief :)

-Doug

(if this is off limits just delete the whole thread for me if you can, thanks)

ConKbot of Doom

Sun Feb 25 2007, 02:52AM

Registered Member #509 Joined: Sat Feb 10 2007, 07:02AM
Location:
Posts: 329

If you must, definitely stick to small batches, I.E. 1g or less. And the Iodine gas mdae by the decomposition may stain the surface the NI3 is on.

AndrewM

Sun Feb 25 2007, 03:28AM

Registered Member #49 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:05AM
Location: Bigass Pile of Penguins
Posts: 362

I tried it once, but it didn't work.

I recrystalized I2 from tincture, and tried to use household ammonia (low conc.), but after a good soak and dry it was hardly explosive... in fact, it seemed just like regular I2.

Sulaiman

Sun Feb 25 2007, 03:45AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

In my youth NI3 was one of my favourites.

BEWARE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whilst moist NI3 is quite stable - when dry it's INCREDIBLY UNSTABLE.
(your breath, a landing housefly etc. will cause detonation)

NI3 is EXTREMELY powerful, much much more than gunpowder, magnesium/permanganate etc.)

Two cautionary tales;

The largest ammount I ever made was about 10 grammes
I left it in a pile (heaped-teaspoon quantity) on a house brick in the garage to dry
with a big DANGER - DO NOT TOUCH sign.
My father said he couldn't resist and got a very long screwdriver (about 18") to 'poke' it
His ears were ringing for hours and the end of the screwdriver bent up!

My friend/accomplice made a batch and before it completely dried
he flicked little bits out of his bedroom window to hear/watch it explode below.
Whilst 'playing' the NI3 kept on drying until .....BANG in his face.
Luckily like me he wore spectacles so his eyes were protected from the (small) blast
but the rest of his face was Iodine red/brown for many days

Talk about red-faced - he didn't come to school for a week!

I had lots of fun with NI3,
I ABSOLUTELY agree that 1g is a sensible batch quantity.

...

Sun Feb 25 2007, 05:29AM

Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445

for refrence

Just don't blow yourself up

ragnar

Sun Feb 25 2007, 05:51AM

Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425

Ya, the stains are impossible to remove -- worse than trying to get ferric chloride residues or chain grease off your hands -- it's there for good!

GreySoul

Sun Feb 25 2007, 05:51AM

Registered Member #546 Joined: Fri Feb 23 2007, 11:43PM
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 239

Sounds good to me. I'm not planning to go over 1g of wet compound, considerably less when dry. But that's something I have a question about. I've been told that the wet compund is stable by most sources yet others caution that the wet compound can still detonate, anyone care to shed more detailed light on that?

Also, I have heard sodium thisulfate will remove the stains, and I have plenty of that in my photo chemicals. Any truth to it?

Thanks

-Doug

I've been watching too much Brainiac

EDIT: mmmm archives. Thanks '...' guy :)

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Sun Feb 25 2007, 08:46AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Are you kidding?! The stains are not Permanant! Iodine is probably the easiest stain I have to remove. Just use an excess of Ammonia and it will decolorize the stain. Its the same as decolorized Iodine.

GreySoul

Tue Feb 27 2007, 02:20AM

Registered Member #546 Joined: Fri Feb 23 2007, 11:43PM
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 239

ok, take one: failure

I used approx 2oz of commercial strength Parssons brand lemon scented ammonia liquid (I have no idea what concentration it is, but it smells much stronger than grocery store brands) and approx 1/2 gram of 99.8% I2 crystals. I let them sit in a small dish, with periodic aggitation for about 4 hours.

The resulting crystals were pitch black, as opposed to the kinda silver gray blue color of the original I2 crystals. When settled and dried on a filter paper the paper turned the purple / brown color that iodine normally gives, and the resulting crystals haven't sublimed away yet. The crystals are bone dry (30+ minutes in the desert) and they seem to be totally stable, nonreactive... I've thumped the pile with the back of a spoon and nothing happend.

So any thoughts on where I went wrong? My first thought is impurities in the ammonia, but I'm open to correction :)

If I need better ammonia I'll just make a condensor tomarrow (I'm a glassblower, btw) and buy some dry ice....I have acetone. Hassle....

unless someone here can suggest a typical any-town local source for unadulterated ammonia solution. I tried home depot, local grocery stores, and a nursery/garden supply..the later could only order me ammonia and said I'd need a license (really? In America? A license to buy non-anhydrous, water based solution of ammonia? I thought you needed the anyhydrous stuff to make meth? *sigh*)

the local chemical suplier (albuchem) seems to have shut down recently... daggumit

edit:

random thought....NH3 boils at like -33c, assuming the water, soaps and surficants will remain somewhat more stable at room temp, would putting the I2 crystals in one dish, and the ammonia water (NH4+ and OH-) in another dish, and sealing them both in a tupperware container work?... would the NH3 escape as a gas, and react with the I2 to form NI3 and some hydrogen gas? the obvious problem I see is that a dry environment would result.... could I wet the I2 with methanol or something first?

Sorry if these seem like inane questions...my knowledge of chemistry is somewhere between a good highschool level and college level, but it's been a while since i've put it to use. I've read all the NI3 stuff in the archives and can't troubleshoot this myself (maybe I could, but considering what I am dealing with....)

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Tue Feb 27 2007, 02:40AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Whats wrong is you're using too much Ammonia and doing it much too long.

Put your crystals on a filter paper, wet them with Ammonina, then fold the filter paper. When the paper is dry and crisp, be careful how you tap it.

Matt

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