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Sunburned face from sparks (REASON FOUND!? CHECK OUT 29th POST)

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LAN_403

Wed Jan 10 2007, 01:20PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

During the summer, it got a bit warm, but the last couple months its quite cool inside, I've been wearing a coat due to the coolness. As requested, attached is a picture of the spark gap (enclosed in the white PVC container) and my four 130 ft tall towers (FAA approved) that support my 400 (+/-) patent pending HV collectors, the red wire connected to the PVC container is the HV feed from the collectors. The white RV in the distance is my tiny 'lab'. The large air-space under the wires/collectors (collectors not visible in the small pics) is the area that occassionally looks like its flickering on darker/cloud covered days. Measuring the antenna output has been a bit difficult for me, I've destroyed one O-scope and fried several meters from not measuring properly, I do know from unpleasant experience that when I am tired or careless and get too close to the HV feed, it sparks to me, leaving a dark black spot on my finger and the smell of burnt skin... also gives me practice expanding my vocabulary of curse words. I'm not claiming this early version is ready to replace any power plants :) but it does demonstrate that small loads can be operated from 'ionic' collection even in zero wind condition (I have a weather station at the test site) also the triboelectric effect has a bit to add when wind is present. CM

Kolas

Wed Jan 10 2007, 02:39PM

Registered Member #102 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:15PM
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 169

Woah that's alot of metal in the air, do you have lightning arrestors on the HV feed running into your laboratory?

I foresee the possibility of those towers making an excellent target for lightning.

Which might result in unpleasant consequences.

Kolas

Bjørn

Wed Jan 10 2007, 03:14PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

During the summer, it got a bit warm, but the last couple months its quite cool inside.

Since it is not the heat then consider irritation or allergic reaction. The static field may cause particles in the air to stick to your skin.

Wed Jan 10 2007, 03:42PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

You'd think so, but I've had various versions of my HV collectors up for approaching two years and no lightning trouble yet. No official lightning arrestors installed, but as soon as the collectors accumulate a few kV, the charge is transported by the wires and drained by jumping the spark gap. From what I understand, lightning occurs when opposite charges build up strong enough to initiate a lightning discharge. Maybe the reason there's been no lightning problem (that I know of) is because the collectors are constantly draining the nearby atmosphere of excess charge being transported by the wires down to the spark gap and HV/LV conversion circuit and finally to ground. However, when there is a thunder storm anywhere nearby (even over the horizon out of sight) the collectors and spark gap go ape-sh*t, big thick blue sparks, sizzling sounds, gets a bit hairy when the environment is that energetic, (1 inch blue sparks, about 1/16th inch thick) so most times I leave and go home when that happens. CM

Sulaiman

Wed Jan 10 2007, 10:18PM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

On seeing the size of your collector array
I don't advise the direct resonant conversion for eht-to-lv conversion
(such as sparkgap to a Tesla Coil in reverse)
unless your authorities will allow the resultant rf transmissions.

Although the total power collection may be modest
(I've no idea, say 100W)
the conversion would be pulsed, e.g. One pulse of 10us per second
The power during that 10us would be equivalent to 100/10u = 10 Mega Watts
Radio pollution of 10 MW pulses don't usually get approval I'd guess.

Whatever conversion method you eventually use
the rf emissions of the collector array must be considered.
Probably implying that the capacitance of the collector array
cannot be used as part of a resonant circuit.
Also the use of a sparkgap on an aerial of this size would also be a massive transmitter.

Just a thought
To stay on topic - could also check for draughts of hot/cold humid/dry air?
Which may also carry allergens.

Steve Conner

Thu Jan 11 2007, 12:30AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Good grief Sulaiman, you have a serious point. CM's array is bigger than anything most of us have used for real ham transmissions!

I've been thinking about this whole thing for ages, and just there I had a brainwave. Why not have the high voltage from the array drive an electrostatic motor, and make this drive a tiny DC generator? That sounds inefficient, but I bet it would end up more efficient than any static HV converter.

So, I googled a bit and found this

Bjørn

Thu Jan 11 2007, 12:48AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

A very good point, electrostatic motors can be fairly efficient and with more than 10W power the generator can surely be made fairly efficient too.

Also consider a resonant piezoelectric crystal device. They can be efficient at transforming voltages.

Sulaiman

Thu Jan 11 2007, 01:23AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

Now that I've appreciated the scale...
I suppose there could be unexpcted emissions from the spargap stuture
and the first step I'd take is a sheet of grounded aluminium (foil?) between yourself and the sparkgap until you know/ as a test.
I guess even a large static electrostaic field may have effects.
I'd definately be 'scoping during the sparkgap discharges.

Reading up on how radio antennas are safety grounded is probably regulatory eventually
so may as well protect yourself now anyway.
Not my area but others may help (in a new thread)?

P.S. I have personally seen the after-effects of lightning and I wouldn't want that collector/sparkgap anywhere near myself!
I hope you are confident of the array's ability to supress a lightning strike!

P.P.S. For now I'd take a portable radio and listen on all available bands whilst sparkgap is operating - a sope with 6" wire aerial or loop will show primary resonant frequencies and of course a spectrum analyser would be best.
The rash could even be a capacitively coupled rf burn/irritation.

Tom540

Thu Jan 11 2007, 04:26AM

Banned on 3/17/2009.
Registered Member #487 Joined: Sun Jul 09 2006, 01:22AM
Location:
Posts: 617

Hey why not replace that gap with a SISG? hehe

Thu Jan 11 2007, 12:18PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

I've operated an electrostatic motor (Bill Beaty's motor design, Bill and I speak from time to time) on my antenna over a year ago, I have pictures somewhere of it spinning from my antenna, if you guys want, I can see if I can find the pictures and post here. It works, but unfortunately the torque of electrostatic motors in general seem to be very low. I've also cooresponded with the King of electrostatic motors Professor Oleg D. Jefimenko (mentioned in the article Steve goggled), Professor Jefimenko's attitude is not to bother with the electrostatic route as he and his students at West Virgina University spent years pursuing that avenue developing many different improvements to electrostatic motors, but none of them seem to produce sufficient torque, even when supplied with much energy, but they are fun to watch. To stay on topic, I am still mystified about the sunburn face, allergins could be involved I suppose because there is a good bit of stray 'static' running around the top of my desk, maybe it attracts grass into the RV on days that I leave the door open, I am allergic to grass, but I take allergy meds to counter its effects. On the other hand, it does not behave as a typical allergy reaction to grass, which usually involves my nose becoming congested, itchy eyes, etc. The only effect is that mainly the right side of my face... the side slightly more exposed to the spark gap, feels slightly burned and appears red. I would LOVE to hear more on how an SISG or resonant piezoelectric crystal device might be tested in my application! Please post here, or if too off topic, start a new thread, or contact me at **link**. Btw, my goal is to reach an efficiency level capable of driving a fuel cell round the clock, so far I can drive a fuel cell for short periods of time, with a bit more efficiency, it could be round the clock. Thanks. CM

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