If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Banned on April 7, 2007 Registered Member #277
Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157
This might be of interest, or a chuckle, to someone. For sometime, I've noticed that my face feels sunburned after a full day's work INSIDE my little lab at a remote 300 acre test site. (I have patent pending HV collection devices that harvest ambient HV and process it through a spark gap housed inside a solid plastic container). At my desk, I sit about 1-2 feet away from the enclosed spark gap (usually 1-10 cm gap). I can't see the spark gap unless I take the lid of the enclosure off. The gap is firing throughout the day and night, so it fires several thouand times while I am there. I started wondering if the small spark that is my constant companion whenever I am at the lab could be responsible for my sunburned face via EM radiation. So I googling tonight and found an article, and then more articles, that comfirm that sparks, whether lightning or manmade, emit, XRAYS and GAMMA RAYS which I believe easily penetrate the plastic spark gap housing. So Holmes, looks like the mystery of the 'toasted' face is solved. CM
Registered Member #162
Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140
As far as I know, the shortest wavelength/maximum energy of spark induced X- or Gamma-rays would be related to the maximum sparkover voltage. So 1cm to 10cm implies to me well over 30 kV which is equivalent to soft/medium x-rays. (same as but lower quantity of x-rays like those generated by crt/tv monitors) I think Gamma rays are in the greater than 500kV range. I hope this is not the cause of your 'sunburn' as it seems a generally hazardous quantity of x-rays are required for tanning. A cheap complete GM detector could check for excessive X- or Gamma-rays. (mine cost about GBP12 with p&p from ebay)
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
I don't believe it either. I can't see how enough radiation could get through opaque plastic (it is opaque, right?) to give you a sun tan, unless it was the sort of radiation that would sooner give you cancer than tan you, and spark gaps don't generate that sort of radiation, unless the voltages and currents are high enough to generate thermonuclear fusion-like temperatures.
Registered Member #89
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145
I really wouldn't be that pessimistic with some sparks; if radiation was that powerful and penetrating we would all probably be dead due to radiation poisoning. O_O
X ray machines accelerate electrons in vacuum using high DC voltages and radiation results from their decelleration after hitting anode (Bremsstrahlung).
It seems that sparks, plasma in air need to get horrendously hot in order to produce that kind of radiation.
Registered Member #102
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:15PM
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 169
I'm not sure this applies. When i was testing and using my carbon arc cutting torch, i frequently got "sun burn" through my clothes.
Of course the arc was many times hotter then the average spark gap, as the torch cut with a suspected 15kW of power. This arc was not sheilded by anything but my welding mask, and is suspected to be 15000 times brighter then the sun.
I found that leather did stop the burning and is a must to use the device.
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Yes, high powered arcs like Kolas's cutting torch generate huge amounts of UV light. But, CM said that his spark gap was inside a solid plastic container. I assumed the plastic wasn't see-thru, and anyway, I was under the impression that even clear plastic stops the wavelengths of UV responsible for sunburn.
Also, there's a big difference between a continuous arc with 15kW of power, and a little spark gap charged by atmospheric electricity that fires a couple of times a second. A 15kW arc at arm's length will expose you to several times more radiation than the sun, sure enough. I imagine the heat from Kolas's arc would melt a plastic container in about 10 seconds.
Banned on April 7, 2007 Registered Member #277
Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157
The spark gap housing is made of thick-wall PVC, so no UV is getting through for sure. After reading the above posts, I'm not sure what is causing the sunburn effect, all I know is that some days my face feels and looks sunburned after sitting infront of the spark gap all day long. Even to the extent that the right side of my face that is slightly more exposed to the spark gap area is more 'sunburned' than the left side. I measured it yesterday, the way my tiny 'lab' at the test site is set up, my face is about 12 inches from the PVC housing that encloses the spark gap. I prefer that the above posts are correct and that no appreciable amount of Xrays or Gamma are emmitted from the spark gap, as I understand those wavelengths are not very healthy. Besides the 'sunburn' thing, there is one other slightly curious thing that happens occassionally... and I hesitate to mention it at all since it might be just an optical illusion. As I work in my tiny lab, which is an RV (recreational vehicle) on a 300 acre tract of wide-open spaces land, I can see the acre of so of land below my antenna which is 3000 feet of wire in a pattern supporting 400 (+/-) of my patent pending HV collectors (patent filed in Feb 2006) supported in the air by four 130 ft towers. Sometimes, on days when there is mild cloud cover, I see in my peripherial vision, what appears to be a rapid flickering of a large area beneath the antenna grid. It is a very weak flickering, in fact, when I try to focus directly on it, I usually can't see it, but when I return to using peripherial vision, I can see it. I can't localize the flickering, and its not there all the time, in fact, it might be argued that its not there at all and that I need to get my eyes examined. Regardless if its real or not, it still interrupts my attention several times a week. If requested, I can post a pic of the spark gap and the test site. CM
Registered Member #27
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058
The peripherial vision can detect much faster changes in light so that is one possible solution to why you have trouble seeing it directly. It is also quite common to see flickering where there is none in certain conditions. I suggest trying a video camera to find out for sure.
When it comes to your face, have you done the obvious thing and measured the temperature inside your lab? It is not completely unknown for astronomers and other people that are focused on what they are doing to get hypothermia or heatstroke without noticing a thing.
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.