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Sunburned face from sparks (REASON FOUND!? CHECK OUT 29th POST)

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LAN_403

Mon Jan 08 2007, 03:03AM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

This might be of interest, or a chuckle, to someone. For sometime, I've noticed that my face feels sunburned after a full day's work INSIDE my little lab at a remote 300 acre test site. (I have patent pending HV collection devices that harvest ambient HV and process it through a spark gap housed inside a solid plastic container). At my desk, I sit about 1-2 feet away from the enclosed spark gap (usually 1-10 cm gap). I can't see the spark gap unless I take the lid of the enclosure off. The gap is firing throughout the day and night, so it fires several thouand times while I am there. I started wondering if the small spark that is my constant companion whenever I am at the lab could be responsible for my sunburned face via EM radiation. So I googling tonight and found an article, and then more articles, that comfirm that sparks, whether lightning or manmade, emit, XRAYS and GAMMA RAYS which I believe easily penetrate the plastic spark gap housing. So Holmes, looks like the mystery of the 'toasted' face is solved. CM

Sulaiman

Mon Jan 08 2007, 02:03PM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

As far as I know, the shortest wavelength/maximum energy of spark induced X- or Gamma-rays
would be related to the maximum sparkover voltage.
So 1cm to 10cm implies to me well over 30 kV which is equivalent to soft/medium x-rays.
(same as but lower quantity of x-rays like those generated by crt/tv monitors)
I think Gamma rays are in the greater than 500kV range.
I hope this is not the cause of your 'sunburn' as it seems a generally hazardous quantity of x-rays are required for tanning.
A cheap complete GM detector could check for excessive X- or Gamma-rays.
(mine cost about GBP12 with p&p from ebay)

Steve Conner

Mon Jan 08 2007, 03:30PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I don't believe it either. I can't see how enough radiation could get through opaque plastic (it is opaque, right?) to give you a sun tan, unless it was the sort of radiation that would sooner give you cancer than tan you, and spark gaps don't generate that sort of radiation, unless the voltages and currents are high enough to generate thermonuclear fusion-like temperatures.

Marko

Mon Jan 08 2007, 06:07PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

I really wouldn't be that pessimistic with some sparks; if radiation was that powerful and penetrating we would all probably be dead due to radiation poisoning. O_O

X ray machines accelerate electrons in vacuum using high DC voltages and radiation results from their decelleration after hitting anode (Bremsstrahlung).

It seems that sparks, plasma in air need to get horrendously hot in order to produce that kind of radiation.

This hot:

Kolas

Mon Jan 08 2007, 07:29PM

Registered Member #102 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:15PM
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 169

I'm not sure this applies.
When i was testing and using my carbon arc cutting torch, i frequently got "sun burn" through my clothes.

Of course the arc was many times hotter then the average spark gap, as the torch cut with a suspected 15kW of power. This arc was not sheilded by anything but my welding mask, and is suspected to be 15000 times brighter then the sun.

I found that leather did stop the burning and is a must to use the device.

Kolas

Simon

Tue Jan 09 2007, 03:21AM

Registered Member #32 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 08:58AM
Location: Australia
Posts: 549

Kolas wrote ...

I'm not sure this applies.
When i was testing and using my carbon arc cutting torch, i frequently got "sun burn" through my clothes.

That's right. Thin clothing is necessarily a perfect barrier against strong UV. Sometimes here downunder you can get a tan through a light t-shirt.

Steve Conner

Tue Jan 09 2007, 09:42AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Yes, high powered arcs like Kolas's cutting torch generate huge amounts of UV light. But, CM said that his spark gap was inside a solid plastic container. I assumed the plastic wasn't see-thru, and anyway, I was under the impression that even clear plastic stops the wavelengths of UV responsible for sunburn.

Also, there's a big difference between a continuous arc with 15kW of power, and a little spark gap charged by atmospheric electricity that fires a couple of times a second. A 15kW arc at arm's length will expose you to several times more radiation than the sun, sure enough. I imagine the heat from Kolas's arc would melt a plastic container in about 10 seconds.

Tue Jan 09 2007, 03:35PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

The spark gap housing is made of thick-wall PVC, so no UV is getting through for sure. After reading the above posts, I'm not sure what is causing the sunburn effect, all I know is that some days my face feels and looks sunburned after sitting infront of the spark gap all day long. Even to the extent that the right side of my face that is slightly more exposed to the spark gap area is more 'sunburned' than the left side. I measured it yesterday, the way my tiny 'lab' at the test site is set up, my face is about 12 inches from the PVC housing that encloses the spark gap. I prefer that the above posts are correct and that no appreciable amount of Xrays or Gamma are emmitted from the spark gap, as I understand those wavelengths are not very healthy. Besides the 'sunburn' thing, there is one other slightly curious thing that happens occassionally... and I hesitate to mention it at all since it might be just an optical illusion. As I work in my tiny lab, which is an RV (recreational vehicle) on a 300 acre tract of wide-open spaces land, I can see the acre of so of land below my antenna which is 3000 feet of wire in a pattern supporting 400 (+/-) of my patent pending HV collectors (patent filed in Feb 2006) supported in the air by four 130 ft towers. Sometimes, on days when there is mild cloud cover, I see in my peripherial vision, what appears to be a rapid flickering of a large area beneath the antenna grid. It is a very weak flickering, in fact, when I try to focus directly on it, I usually can't see it, but when I return to using peripherial vision, I can see it. I can't localize the flickering, and its not there all the time, in fact, it might be argued that its not there at all and that I need to get my eyes examined. Regardless if its real or not, it still interrupts my attention several times a week. If requested, I can post a pic of the spark gap and the test site. CM

Bjørn

Tue Jan 09 2007, 06:33PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

The peripherial vision can detect much faster changes in light so that is one possible solution to why you have trouble seeing it directly. It is also quite common to see flickering where there is none in certain conditions. I suggest trying a video camera to find out for sure.

When it comes to your face, have you done the obvious thing and measured the temperature inside your lab? It is not completely unknown for astronomers and other people that are focused on what they are doing to get hypothermia or heatstroke without noticing a thing.

Please post some pictures.

Dr. Slack

Wed Jan 10 2007, 08:10AM

Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659

Just curious CM, what sort of DC output power do you measure from your 1 acre of collector?

What HV input power do you expect from fine weather currents?

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