Welcome
Username or Email:

Password:


Missing Code




[ ]
[ ]
Online
  • Guests: 22
  • Members: 0
  • Newest Member: omjtest
  • Most ever online: 396
    Guests: 396, Members: 0 on 12 Jan : 12:51
Members Birthdays:
One birthday today, congrats!
Colin 99 (53)


Next birthdays
05/14 hvguy (41)
05/14 thehappyelectron (14)
05/14 Justin (2024)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • Andrew Haynes
  • Anonymous000
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Blitzorn
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Davis
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • E.TexasTesla
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Gordon Mcknight
  • Graham Armitage
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jeff Thomas
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • mbd
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • nicklenorp
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • smiffy
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Thomas W
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • vasil
  • Vaxian
  • vladi mazzilli
  • wastehl
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: Electromagnetic Projectile Accelerators
« Previous topic | Next topic »   

Something worth experimenting with?

Move Thread LAN_403
Freelancer1331
Mon Dec 31 2012, 01:59AM Print
Freelancer1331 Registered Member #7829 Joined: Sat Nov 03 2012, 08:16PM
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 16
Given the cost of high power switching devices, what is the feasibility of not using IGBTs, SCRs, etc. and instead using contacts on the inside of the barrel? The projectile would complete the circuit of each stage as it passes down the barrel and the placement of the contacts could be tuned to achieve maximum performance. Obviously, this design would require some sort of initial kick to get going.

I think Ash Small brought this up in Saz's project thread. What're your thoughts?
Back to top
Maxwell
Mon Dec 31 2012, 03:23AM
Maxwell Registered Member #8497 Joined: Tue Dec 04 2012, 06:24PM
Location:
Posts: 74
What you're referring to is spark-gap triggering.
If you're utilizing decent high power (>1kJ) capacitor banks, you can afford the losses from the arcing.

This method has been implemented very successfully by one of the members here who almost broke the sound barrier.

However - the consequences are:
1. Terminal contact erosion caused by arc'ing.
2. Very noisy.



Back to top
Freelancer1331
Mon Dec 31 2012, 10:39PM
Freelancer1331 Registered Member #7829 Joined: Sat Nov 03 2012, 08:16PM
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 16
Ah spark gaps! Thanks

Given the breakdown voltage of air, roughly 3kV/mm, and a gap between contact and projectile of say 0.5mm, I'd need 1.5kV for the spark gap to work...

In terms of cost, I imagine high energy capacitors to be as expensive if not more expensive than high current switching devices.
Back to top
Maxwell
Tue Jan 01 2013, 12:41AM
Maxwell Registered Member #8497 Joined: Tue Dec 04 2012, 06:24PM
Location:
Posts: 74
Do remember that you can place your caps in series to obtain h.v.
Back to top
Yandersen
Tue Jan 01 2013, 01:44AM
Yandersen Registered Member #6944 Joined: Fri Sept 28 2012, 04:54PM
Location: Canada
Posts: 340
Yeah, and do remember that optical triggering doesn't require h.v. and will work for more than one shot. :)
Back to top
Freelancer1331
Tue Jan 01 2013, 09:32PM
Freelancer1331 Registered Member #7829 Joined: Sat Nov 03 2012, 08:16PM
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 16
My current design (on paper) has 3 optically triggered IGBTs at much lower voltage, but I thought I might be able to eliminate some part costs by utilizing spark gaps.
Back to top
Avalanche
Wed Jan 02 2013, 12:05AM
Avalanche Registered Member #103 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:16PM
Location: Derby, UK
Posts: 845
I wouldn't want to try it cheesey

To get a good mechanical contact, which you'll want for a high current, you'll end up with a load of friction slowing down the projectile almost to a standstill. Switching devices are generally cheap anyway, and have very low conduction losses.. so stick with them! My first coilgun used a mechanical switch, and even that's probably better than including the projectile as part of the switching action. Coilguns are very inefficient (in terms of joules in the capacitor converted to joules in the projectile, 1/2mv^2) that anything that impedes the projectile will just make it worse.
Back to top
Freelancer1331
Wed Jan 02 2013, 12:29AM
Freelancer1331 Registered Member #7829 Joined: Sat Nov 03 2012, 08:16PM
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 16
Yeah, I realize the spark gap was just a hopeful attempt to save money and keep performance at the same time (unrealistic). I think I'll take all of your advice and keep to the switching elements especially since this is my first build. Thanks everyone
Back to top
Legit_bacon
Wed Jan 02 2013, 10:00PM
Legit_bacon Registered Member #4034 Joined: Thu Jul 28 2011, 10:41PM
Location: somewhere in the Southern hemisphere
Posts: 138
My first coilgun did this, some odd 800volts ish (long time ago) and a spark gap trigured by a relay (single stage) so timing wasn't a issue. Worked really well. The relay never really wore either.
Back to top

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob

Go to:

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.