If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #5136
Joined: Sun Jun 03 2012, 03:07PM
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Posts: 6
I'm always searching for nice, easy built power supplies for geiger counter use. The internet is full of all kinds of designs. One of the better ones seems to be the one used in the DIY Geiger Counter project. It uses fairly standard parts apart from the HV transistor, has low power use and is easily adjusted to the proper voltage.
So, I built the HV section of the schematic and started measuring. The problem is that the voltage doesn't seem to be stable. I watched the square wave coming from the 555 and the signal at base of the MPSA44 on my scope but when adjusting the voltage, it jumps, suddenly oscillating much faster or completely stopping oscillation.
I'm using a standard 555 instead of the CMOS 555 used in the original schematic but even dropping in a CMOS 555 seems to result in the same behavior. I have used different power sources, decoupled the power supply properly with a 100 nF capacitor but nothing seems to help. I have also cleaned the perfboard PCB to make sure there aren't any (slight) shorts.
What could be the cause of the problem? Apart from the stabililty issue it seems to work as described, I can get up to 580V out of it.
Registered Member #834
Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644
Try to connect pin 5 to ground with a 100 nF capacitor. Also, the high-impedance connection to the reset pin (4) seems not safe. I would prefer a direct connection of pin 4 to the positive power supply (pin 8), and would connect the overcurrent protection transistor Q1 to pin 5 (in parallel with the added 100 nF capacitor).
Registered Member #162
Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140
That is a strange hv inverter; 1) MPSA44 is only rated for 400V so at 580V is probably continuously avalanching 2) The only output voltage regulation is the breakdown of the MPSA44 3) if the output voltage is determined only by the current control then at high count rates the high voltage will decrease. .... I don't understand this circuit, I must be missing something,
Registered Member #5136
Joined: Sun Jun 03 2012, 03:07PM
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Posts: 6
Sulaiman wrote ...
That is a strange hv inverter; 1) MPSA44 is only rated for 400V so at 580V is probably continuously avalanching 2) The only output voltage regulation is the breakdown of the MPSA44 3) if the output voltage is determined only by the current control then at high count rates the high voltage will decrease. .... I don't understand this circuit, I must be missing something,
Thanks for your feedback. Indeed, the MPSA44 has a max 400V rating. Still, I am rather sure that I can get more than 400V out of it, I clearly measured it. I measure high impedance HV with a DIY 1:10 probe, this is not really accurate but it can't be more than 10-20V off at this voltage. I wonder, how accurate are those ratings? Can you expect this transistor to start breaking down at 400V or can it be much more in real life?
The circuit is designed to regulate voltage using the voltage from the variable resistor. I understand that it will vary with load but geiger tubes are not a normal, continuous load. When idle they will consume practically no current, only at high count rates there will be a significant current drain.
Anyway, I am a little bit puzzled... Why did the maker of the circuit use a transistor with insufficient rating? I own two of the kits which are very nicely designed and seem to work fine, except from the one on I have on the roof as a weather station which stopped reporting counts, maybe HV failure? And why am I getting such unpredictable results, is it caused by the transistor, 555 or else?
If we consider a count rate of 5000 cps - more than will ever be detected by a GM tube close to the surface of any natural source such as pitchblende - and say that each conduction event lasts 10 μs - then the tube conducts its 100 μA for 0.05 seconds out of every second, so the average current pull at 5000 cps will be 5 μA.
Obviously these figures will vary from case to case, but these are the order of currents we should expect to see, and plan for, in a GM circuit.
I have some power supplies for GM pocket dosimeters, which will provide 500V for 18 months of 24/7 counting from a 3V battery. The power supplies are smaller than a sugar lump.
When idle it consumes very little current. It's one of Charles Wenzel's geiger counter circuits adapted with a high impedance feedback loop.
I have discovered that high voltage / low current HV circuits have to be quite clean. At high voltages stuff which normally isolates very well becomes a conductor. I had to rebuild this new circuit because it wouldn't function properly, drawing too much current and failing to provide the correct voltage. Probably some flux or blackened PCB conducted too much and made the circuit fail.
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.