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Ball mill - Lead alternatives?

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Billybobjoe

Sun Jun 25 2006, 06:18PM

Registered Member #396 Joined: Wed Apr 19 2006, 12:55AM
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 176

I just bought ball mill (well, rock tumbler, but looks exactly like United Nuclear's) on eBay and I need some milling media. I know that lead-antimony is prefferred but is there anything else that can be use that is nonsparking? UnitedNuclear and other places say lead is the only completely non sparking media, but that may have something to do with them selling it at crazy prices.

I don't want all sorts of lead dust all over the place so would glass (marbles) be OK? I can't see them sparking and they're fairly heavy. The only thing I can think of would be the static aspect being an e- donor. What about brass?

Anyone have any experience with this? I'm looking for something pretty easy to find and inexpensive.

Wolfram

Sun Jun 25 2006, 07:31PM

Registered Member #33 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 971

Glass marbles can work, the only problem is that they will chip and contaminate what you are milling with glass dust. They might generate static, I don't really know. Brass is regarded as non-sparking, so that should work well if you can get brass balls.

How about making your own media out of lead? As long as you take the neccessary safety precautions, things should be relatively safe and easy.

Here's some good information:

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Sun Jun 25 2006, 08:54PM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

How about doing it right and buying a pound of ceramic mill pellets. I know they are out there, I just can't remember where.

Billybobjoe

Sun Jun 25 2006, 10:26PM

Registered Member #396 Joined: Wed Apr 19 2006, 12:55AM
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 176

I was thinking ceramic - but I saw this article

BALL MILLING BLACK POWDER: DONâ€™T USE CERAMIC GRINDING MEDIA
Cal F. passed this along. It may seem obvious to you, but we get a lot of calls from folks who are just beginning to set up their own ball mills and want to know what to use to do the grinding work. Cal writes: â€œBought some willow charcoal from a guy in Indiana a while back. He said he had a big explosion ball milling black powder using ceramic media. Thought Iâ€™d pass along the infoâ€ Thanks, Cal.

What you want is lead or brass grinding media. Lead grinding media can be had from all sorts of sources. For small mills, you can use the .50 caliber round balls obtainable at black powder gun shops. I know people who have used large sinkers and wheel weights (with the center, steel part cut away). Perhaps the best lead media are those made with an additional amount of antimony metal to harden them.

From this site -

Also from Skylighter â€“
Q: Can I use alumina or ceramic balls in my ball mill for making black powder and whistle mix?
A: Sure. Once. Alumina or ceramic milling media make little teeny tiny sparks. Sparks are what we use to ignite flammable and explosive mixes with. So, the odds are pretty high that using them to grind explosive mixtures will result in an explosion. If you have never seen a ball mill full of black powder or whistle mix explode, you have missed one of life's truly sobering experiences. If you are milling an explosive mix, use lead or brass media. If you are milling a single chemical (not a mix) that is not likely to explode or ignite, you can use ceramic.

I'll look around for brass. I may end up getting them from McMaster 50 for $14.97.

Carbon_Rod

Mon Jun 26 2006, 01:54AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

Most people use a wet solvent mix (or water) to keep volatile chemicals stable. Working dry is not always a good idea -- I am not sure why it has become such a common technique in the last few years as even coal dust or flour can be unpredictable in a closed container. (Chuck a dry cup of sand in there for a few hours and see if it stays cool.)

Bismuth shot should work just as well.

McFluffin

Mon Jun 26 2006, 03:29AM

Registered Member #119 Joined: Fri Feb 10 2006, 06:26AM
Location: USA
Posts: 114

I was under the impression that getting copper(as in the brass) into an explosive mixture was nearly as dangerous as sulpher with a chlorate. Have I been mislead or is copper safe?
Do you mean grinding it wet by hand compared to dry in a ball mill or wet in a ball mill? Perhaps more pressure is required when wet and so it doesn't grind as finely as it could. I believe it is wetted to make it safe to apply more pressure.
I had never heard that about ceramics. I'll keep that in mind.

Desmogod

Mon Jun 26 2006, 03:48AM

Registered Member #139 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 11:01AM
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 358

Have you thought of running it as a SAG or FAG mill?

Carbon_Rod

Mon Jun 26 2006, 05:27AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

â€œis copper safe?â€
Personally I donâ€™t know of anyone who has tried it.

â€œwet in a ball mill?â€
No extra steps â€“ just make sure what you are grinding is not damaged by water etc.

Cheers,

Billybobjoe

Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:02PM

Registered Member #396 Joined: Wed Apr 19 2006, 12:55AM
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 176

I could do it wet with water. The only problem is that when the it dries you'll have to crush it again into a powder (this is for BP). That wouldn't be too bad though.

Desmogod - whats the difference (looked around on Google but not too many explanations) between a normal ball mill and a SAG or (trying not to giggle) FAG mill - is it just wet?

Desmogod

Tue Jun 27 2006, 02:51AM

Registered Member #139 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 11:01AM
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 358

Nick T. wrote ...

Desmogod - whats the difference (looked around on Google but not too many explanations) between a normal ball mill and a SAG or (trying not to giggle) FAG mill - is it just wet?

Ok, In a standard ball mill, you (usually) use metal balls as a medium for grinding. In a SAG mill, it is a Semi Autogenous Grind, where less balls are used, and the substance in the mill acts as it's own grinding agent. And dare I say it, In a FAG mill (Fully Autogenous Grind) they use no balls at all. I was unaware what you where grinding, and was looking upon this from a mining perspective.
I think you are going to have troubles with friction, heat build up and possibly even static, and this is not a good thing considering the product you are grinding.

I would say your best bet would be to use lead and water, then find some way of regrinding the "cake" after it has dried.

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