Who has built an HHO generator?
nzoomed, Sat Dec 10 2016, 08:55PMIm looking at building one to produce gas for welding and probably useful for other experiments also.
Im looking at using a dry plate cell, but others are also driving them with PWM, supposed to increase efficiency this way.
Any tips or advice would be great.
Re: Who has built an HHO generator?
Carbon_Rod, Sat Dec 10 2016, 11:30PM
They require about 20% sodium hydroxide by weight with distilled water, and must use 50% alcohol in bubble chamber to reduce the flame temperature to usable levels. Oxyhydrogen torches are used to flame polish acrylic edges, and should not be used on metals for several reasons.
22 Ga stainless-steel dispenser needles work very well as tips, but the flow rate will vary on different machines.
These can be bought with a flash back arrester for about $300 delivered.
Note a small MIG wire-fed welder is probably better for anything metal, as we use the unit to simulate failing parts.
If you promise to stop using the crank term "HHO", I'd be happy to discuss our experience with its operation.
Cheers
Carbon_Rod, Sat Dec 10 2016, 11:30PM
They require about 20% sodium hydroxide by weight with distilled water, and must use 50% alcohol in bubble chamber to reduce the flame temperature to usable levels. Oxyhydrogen torches are used to flame polish acrylic edges, and should not be used on metals for several reasons.
22 Ga stainless-steel dispenser needles work very well as tips, but the flow rate will vary on different machines.
These can be bought with a flash back arrester for about $300 delivered.
Note a small MIG wire-fed welder is probably better for anything metal, as we use the unit to simulate failing parts.
If you promise to stop using the crank term "HHO", I'd be happy to discuss our experience with its operation.
Cheers
Re: Who has built an HHO generator?
nzoomed, Sun Dec 11 2016, 03:21AM
Actually, your right, alot of people seem to call it HHO, which seems to also be used as a pseudo science term a bit like browns gas, but thats what so many people call it, at the end if the day it just refers to the chemical mixture of gases (2 hydrogen and 1 Oxygen)
Ironically, the link you posted me quotes "HHO"
I know you need a beefy power supply to run a decent system, but its supposed to be excellent for welding and should be cheaper than oxy acetylene to run.
I saw them welding with it on a TV documentary on youtube, the guy was able to put the flame over his hand and it did not burn him, yet it would heat steel red hot almost instantly!
I find it interesting that you say you have to reduce the flame temperature to make it workable, yet some people claim that its not hot enough to weld most metals. I disagree with this, but I have read a bit about how hydrogen typically burns cooler than other gases.
I dont know what the story is with sodium hydroxide, not everyone uses it in their systems, supposed to make the water more conductive is it not?
nzoomed, Sun Dec 11 2016, 03:21AM
Actually, your right, alot of people seem to call it HHO, which seems to also be used as a pseudo science term a bit like browns gas, but thats what so many people call it, at the end if the day it just refers to the chemical mixture of gases (2 hydrogen and 1 Oxygen)
Ironically, the link you posted me quotes "HHO"
I know you need a beefy power supply to run a decent system, but its supposed to be excellent for welding and should be cheaper than oxy acetylene to run.
I saw them welding with it on a TV documentary on youtube, the guy was able to put the flame over his hand and it did not burn him, yet it would heat steel red hot almost instantly!
I find it interesting that you say you have to reduce the flame temperature to make it workable, yet some people claim that its not hot enough to weld most metals. I disagree with this, but I have read a bit about how hydrogen typically burns cooler than other gases.
I dont know what the story is with sodium hydroxide, not everyone uses it in their systems, supposed to make the water more conductive is it not?
Re: Who has built an HHO generator?
Carbon_Rod, Sun Dec 11 2016, 04:58AM
"excellent for welding and should be cheaper than oxy acetylene to run."
Nope, it was actually an early welding technique used prior to oxy acetylene, and was replaced as hydrogen often can cause structural failures.
"the guy was able to put the flame over his hand and it did not burn him"
It was probably boiling off the surface layers of stupid... don't try this at home... the condensing trace sodium hydroxide will probably denature what remains.
"I find it interesting that you say you have to reduce the flame temperature to make it workable"
It can boil/burn/incinerate most metals, and is pretty useless for any sort of welding work.
The hottest zone in the flame is mostly in the UV spectrum apparently, and is thus invisible unless a contaminant is introduced.
"yet some people claim that its not hot enough to weld most metals."
No... most say you shouldn't use it for welding, and they would be right (see first link).
"I dont know what the story is with sodium hydroxide, not everyone uses it in their systems"
That is because they don't know how to balance a simple equation, read an MSDS, and are happy with a contaminated inefficient gas source.
Carbon_Rod, Sun Dec 11 2016, 04:58AM
"excellent for welding and should be cheaper than oxy acetylene to run."
Nope, it was actually an early welding technique used prior to oxy acetylene, and was replaced as hydrogen often can cause structural failures.
"the guy was able to put the flame over his hand and it did not burn him"
It was probably boiling off the surface layers of stupid... don't try this at home... the condensing trace sodium hydroxide will probably denature what remains.
"I find it interesting that you say you have to reduce the flame temperature to make it workable"
It can boil/burn/incinerate most metals, and is pretty useless for any sort of welding work.
The hottest zone in the flame is mostly in the UV spectrum apparently, and is thus invisible unless a contaminant is introduced.
"yet some people claim that its not hot enough to weld most metals."
No... most say you shouldn't use it for welding, and they would be right (see first link).
"I dont know what the story is with sodium hydroxide, not everyone uses it in their systems"
That is because they don't know how to balance a simple equation, read an MSDS, and are happy with a contaminated inefficient gas source.
Re: Who has built an HHO generator?
Dr. Slack, Sun Dec 11 2016, 08:47AM
so to clarify ... this is generation of mixed gas, 2:1 H and O, and burning it at a tip, not separate H and O brought together in the flame?
I did once use (mis-use?) an old wet cell car battery to fill a bin bag of the stuff, to shoot firework rockets at from a distance (none hit, I finally had to attach a fuse to it, and then run, the bang was very satisfying).
I guess if the flame speed is low and gas flow high, then flash back can be avoided, but it sounds an easy thing to get wrong or let get out of adjustment.
Dr. Slack, Sun Dec 11 2016, 08:47AM
so to clarify ... this is generation of mixed gas, 2:1 H and O, and burning it at a tip, not separate H and O brought together in the flame?
I did once use (mis-use?) an old wet cell car battery to fill a bin bag of the stuff, to shoot firework rockets at from a distance (none hit, I finally had to attach a fuse to it, and then run, the bang was very satisfying).
I guess if the flame speed is low and gas flow high, then flash back can be avoided, but it sounds an easy thing to get wrong or let get out of adjustment.
Re: Who has built an HHO generator?
nzoomed, Mon Dec 12 2016, 04:41AM
To seperate oxygen and hydrogen with a typical dry plate cell or any other cell is pretty difficult.
The only way ive seen it done is with a U-Shape chamber made from PVC pipe with an electrode on each end, this is a very slow means of producing the gas, but you have the advantage of collecting the oxygen and hydrogen that builds up at each end, with most other cell designs all the gases are mixed together.
My science teacher fooled around with an interesting cell design made from several sizes of stainless pipe inside each other, I think it was called a joe cell.
It produced quite a bit of gas and we had lots of fun in science class filling balloons with it and igniting them in the classroom!
He also used it to power a small combustion engine.
nzoomed, Mon Dec 12 2016, 04:41AM
Dr. Slack wrote ...
so to clarify ... this is generation of mixed gas, 2:1 H and O, and burning it at a tip, not separate H and O brought together in the flame?
I did once use (mis-use?) an old wet cell car battery to fill a bin bag of the stuff, to shoot firework rockets at from a distance (none hit, I finally had to attach a fuse to it, and then run, the bang was very satisfying).
I guess if the flame speed is low and gas flow high, then flash back can be avoided, but it sounds an easy thing to get wrong or let get out of adjustment.
so to clarify ... this is generation of mixed gas, 2:1 H and O, and burning it at a tip, not separate H and O brought together in the flame?
I did once use (mis-use?) an old wet cell car battery to fill a bin bag of the stuff, to shoot firework rockets at from a distance (none hit, I finally had to attach a fuse to it, and then run, the bang was very satisfying).
I guess if the flame speed is low and gas flow high, then flash back can be avoided, but it sounds an easy thing to get wrong or let get out of adjustment.
To seperate oxygen and hydrogen with a typical dry plate cell or any other cell is pretty difficult.
The only way ive seen it done is with a U-Shape chamber made from PVC pipe with an electrode on each end, this is a very slow means of producing the gas, but you have the advantage of collecting the oxygen and hydrogen that builds up at each end, with most other cell designs all the gases are mixed together.
My science teacher fooled around with an interesting cell design made from several sizes of stainless pipe inside each other, I think it was called a joe cell.
It produced quite a bit of gas and we had lots of fun in science class filling balloons with it and igniting them in the classroom!
He also used it to power a small combustion engine.
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