200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 01 2012, 04:59PMMy 200KV Marx generator ran for the first time today, and it worked perfectly. Being a little "cautious", I set the spark gaps for only 1.25 inches and ran a ballast made of 2000 watts of halogen bulbs to limit the current to the 40kv potential transformer.
My goal was to separate amethyst crystals in one pulse, a process that takes an expert with a tiny hammer several hours. The project was a success.
My 200KV Marx Generator and rock disaggregation vessel.
The result after 1 pulse! Original rock was about the size of a large grapefruit.
Spark gaps only set to 1.25 inches during this test.
The 40KV GE potential transformer and diode string.
Now I want to find some funding to build a backpack version using proper Maxwell pulse caps.
Any takers?
Brad
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Dri0m, Wed Aug 01 2012, 05:35PM
umm, why did you destroy amethyst? it's so nice mineral! :D btw nice machine :)
Dri0m, Wed Aug 01 2012, 05:35PM
umm, why did you destroy amethyst? it's so nice mineral! :D btw nice machine :)
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 01 2012, 05:40PM
Yeah, those huge 5 pointed clusters are definitely impressive, but the solid pieces inside make expensive jewelery!
Brad
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 01 2012, 05:40PM
Dri0m wrote ...
umm, why did you destroy amethyst? it's so nice mineral! :D btw nice machine :)
umm, why did you destroy amethyst? it's so nice mineral! :D btw nice machine :)
Yeah, those huge 5 pointed clusters are definitely impressive, but the solid pieces inside make expensive jewelery!
Brad
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Ben Solon, Wed Aug 01 2012, 05:52PM
There's been some ideas to do high voltage coilguns built into backpacks. For a low voltage version it would be fine, but both designs use the energy stored in a capacitor where energy is a function of capacitance and capacitance. To make it small enough to fit a backpack the caps have to be lower capacitance, higher voltage, and if there's 200kv worth of isolation stuffed in as well, there's really no point to it anymore.
But if you mean something that is built into a backpack unit to be assembled remotely, then go for it!
Nice work though, but don't get too comfortable near those caps XD
Ben Solon, Wed Aug 01 2012, 05:52PM
There's been some ideas to do high voltage coilguns built into backpacks. For a low voltage version it would be fine, but both designs use the energy stored in a capacitor where energy is a function of capacitance and capacitance. To make it small enough to fit a backpack the caps have to be lower capacitance, higher voltage, and if there's 200kv worth of isolation stuffed in as well, there's really no point to it anymore.
But if you mean something that is built into a backpack unit to be assembled remotely, then go for it!
Nice work though, but don't get too comfortable near those caps XD
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 01 2012, 06:15PM
Yes, a version that could be traversed into the bush and setup, not a backpack mounted weapon, although that would indeed be cool!
When you say "don't get too comfortable around those caps", do you mean it would be unwise for me to sit next to them while they charge and let the hissing corona leaking from the gaps keep my coffee warm?
Yeah, I stand in the other room when they go boom!
Blew out a window from a discharge once, so there is always a risk of shrapnel, even when it's working!
Brad
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 01 2012, 06:15PM
Yes, a version that could be traversed into the bush and setup, not a backpack mounted weapon, although that would indeed be cool!
When you say "don't get too comfortable around those caps", do you mean it would be unwise for me to sit next to them while they charge and let the hissing corona leaking from the gaps keep my coffee warm?
Yeah, I stand in the other room when they go boom!
Blew out a window from a discharge once, so there is always a risk of shrapnel, even when it's working!
Brad
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Forty, Wed Aug 01 2012, 06:17PM
I wouldn't want a capacitor bank at even a tenth of that voltage charged and strapped to my back.
Have you looked into defibrillator capacitors for a more portable version? I know aerovox makes some rather compact versions.
I can just picture you walking through a rocky area with a ghostbusters like backpack blasting rocks apart. lol.
Any damage to your spark gap electrodes after the test? I was expecting them to be partially vaporized at that kind of energy level.
Forty, Wed Aug 01 2012, 06:17PM
I wouldn't want a capacitor bank at even a tenth of that voltage charged and strapped to my back.
Have you looked into defibrillator capacitors for a more portable version? I know aerovox makes some rather compact versions.
I can just picture you walking through a rocky area with a ghostbusters like backpack blasting rocks apart. lol.
Any damage to your spark gap electrodes after the test? I was expecting them to be partially vaporized at that kind of energy level.
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
AuroraFlame, Wed Aug 01 2012, 09:20PM
Wow that looks dangerous, no way I would have something like that strapped to my back. Maybe an electro-fishing backpack device could be modified? Some of those electrofishing backpacks are actually powered by small petrol engines!
AuroraFlame, Wed Aug 01 2012, 09:20PM
Wow that looks dangerous, no way I would have something like that strapped to my back. Maybe an electro-fishing backpack device could be modified? Some of those electrofishing backpacks are actually powered by small petrol engines!
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Steve Conner, Wed Aug 01 2012, 09:46PM
Looks good!
The only suggestion I can offer is to put some big high wattage resistors in series with the two charging inputs, to protect the diode string and transformer from transients.
Steve Conner, Wed Aug 01 2012, 09:46PM
Looks good!
The only suggestion I can offer is to put some big high wattage resistors in series with the two charging inputs, to protect the diode string and transformer from transients.Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
HV Enthusiast, Wed Aug 01 2012, 09:48PM
Awesome. How exactly do you hook up the output to the Amethyst? Are you just discharging the the marx. through the crystal?
HV Enthusiast, Wed Aug 01 2012, 09:48PM
Awesome. How exactly do you hook up the output to the Amethyst? Are you just discharging the the marx. through the crystal?
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 01 2012, 10:29PM
Thanks for the advice. I wonder what value would be good? Perhaps a 500 watt halogen bulb would work as a charging resistor?
Brad
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 01 2012, 10:29PM
Steve Conner wrote ...
Looks good! The only suggestion I can offer is to put some big high wattage resistors in series with the two charging inputs, to protect the diode string and transformer from transients.
Looks good!
The only suggestion I can offer is to put some big high wattage resistors in series with the two charging inputs, to protect the diode string and transformer from transients.Thanks for the advice. I wonder what value would be good? Perhaps a 500 watt halogen bulb would work as a charging resistor?
Brad
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
HV Enthusiast, Thu Aug 02 2012, 12:55AM
I would put a a pretty high resistance in series. Not sure what your charge source is or what charge times you really want, but on the commercial max generators i've worked with, they generally used 1-10Meg series resistors for this purpose. We also use similar sized resistors when hi-potting large high voltage equipment.
HV Enthusiast, Thu Aug 02 2012, 12:55AM
I would put a a pretty high resistance in series. Not sure what your charge source is or what charge times you really want, but on the commercial max generators i've worked with, they generally used 1-10Meg series resistors for this purpose. We also use similar sized resistors when hi-potting large high voltage equipment.
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Oneironaut, Thu Aug 02 2012, 03:09AM
That's a high resistance value. Looks like another DIY project as finding a resistor capable will be difficult. Maybe a 12 inch plastic tube filled with water and a set of bolts threaded into each end to seal the unit? That should have a meg or 2 of resistance and take the abuse.
What do you think about this as a charge resistor?...
Thanks,
Brad
Oneironaut, Thu Aug 02 2012, 03:09AM
EasternVoltageResearch wrote ...
I would put a a pretty high resistance in series. Not sure what your charge source is or what charge times you really want, but on the commercial max generators i've worked with, they generally used 1-10Meg series resistors for this purpose. We also use similar sized resistors when hi-potting large high voltage equipment.
I would put a a pretty high resistance in series. Not sure what your charge source is or what charge times you really want, but on the commercial max generators i've worked with, they generally used 1-10Meg series resistors for this purpose. We also use similar sized resistors when hi-potting large high voltage equipment.
That's a high resistance value. Looks like another DIY project as finding a resistor capable will be difficult. Maybe a 12 inch plastic tube filled with water and a set of bolts threaded into each end to seal the unit? That should have a meg or 2 of resistance and take the abuse.
What do you think about this as a charge resistor?...
Thanks,
Brad
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
2Spoons, Thu Aug 02 2012, 06:01AM
I'd be a bit wary of using a film resistor. When I was working with electric fencing I found film resistors were OK until there was any kind of arc in series with them - at which point they'd blow a hole in the side. Something to do with fast voltage transients I'm guessing. I'd go with the water resistor - its cheap and easy to replace and customise.
2Spoons, Thu Aug 02 2012, 06:01AM
I'd be a bit wary of using a film resistor. When I was working with electric fencing I found film resistors were OK until there was any kind of arc in series with them - at which point they'd blow a hole in the side. Something to do with fast voltage transients I'm guessing. I'd go with the water resistor - its cheap and easy to replace and customise.
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Oneironaut, Thu Aug 02 2012, 01:40PM
While thinking about making a pair of charging resistors (water filled tubes), it came to mind that these definitely need to be on the transformer side of the diode. If the water resistor saw any DC current, hydrogen bubbles would probably form in the sealed tube... not a good thing with so much corona around!
Brad
Oneironaut, Thu Aug 02 2012, 01:40PM
While thinking about making a pair of charging resistors (water filled tubes), it came to mind that these definitely need to be on the transformer side of the diode. If the water resistor saw any DC current, hydrogen bubbles would probably form in the sealed tube... not a good thing with so much corona around!
Brad
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
jake3085, Thu Aug 02 2012, 01:48PM
wow this looks great :) you have put a lot of work into this :) do you have any videos of this? and do you have a youtube channel if so ill sub ya:)
take care and be safe:)
my youtube ->https://www.youtube.com/user/jake3085? feature=mhee
jake3085, Thu Aug 02 2012, 01:48PM
wow this looks great :) you have put a lot of work into this :) do you have any videos of this? and do you have a youtube channel if so ill sub ya:)
take care and be safe:)
my youtube ->https://www.youtube.com/user/jake3085? feature=mhee
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
HV Enthusiast, Thu Aug 02 2012, 01:51PM
Oneironaut,
I have some resistors which will fit the bill if you're interested. Free of charge but they are big so i'd ask you to pay only the shipping.
HV Enthusiast, Thu Aug 02 2012, 01:51PM
Oneironaut,
I have some resistors which will fit the bill if you're interested. Free of charge but they are big so i'd ask you to pay only the shipping.
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Steve Conner, Thu Aug 02 2012, 02:02PM
The diode is in series with the transformer winding. It's a series circuit, so if DC flows in one part of it, DC must flow in all of it. Halfwave rectifiers normally aren't used with transformers for this reason: the DC saturates the core. But your transformer is so overkill for the job that it probably won't be bothered.
As to the resistance value, anything above roughly 1k should work, as it just has to damp RF oscillations.
Steve Conner, Thu Aug 02 2012, 02:02PM
Oneironaut wrote ...
While thinking about making a pair of charging resistors (water filled tubes), it came to mind that these definitely need to be on the transformer side of the diode. If the water resistor saw any DC current, hydrogen bubbles would probably form in the sealed tube... not a good thing with so much corona around!
Brad
While thinking about making a pair of charging resistors (water filled tubes), it came to mind that these definitely need to be on the transformer side of the diode. If the water resistor saw any DC current, hydrogen bubbles would probably form in the sealed tube... not a good thing with so much corona around!
Brad
The diode is in series with the transformer winding. It's a series circuit, so if DC flows in one part of it, DC must flow in all of it. Halfwave rectifiers normally aren't used with transformers for this reason: the DC saturates the core. But your transformer is so overkill for the job that it probably won't be bothered.
As to the resistance value, anything above roughly 1k should work, as it just has to damp RF oscillations.
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Microwatt, Fri Aug 03 2012, 04:07PM
you know it looks like you hit it with a sledge hammer. y
Microwatt, Fri Aug 03 2012, 04:07PM
you know it looks like you hit it with a sledge hammer. y
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Tetris, Fri Aug 03 2012, 06:34PM
Amethysts are so pretty. You should have found a way to just cleave it, not burst it into a trillion pieces! And where did you get the amethyst anyways?
Tetris, Fri Aug 03 2012, 06:34PM
Amethysts are so pretty. You should have found a way to just cleave it, not burst it into a trillion pieces! And where did you get the amethyst anyways?
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Oneironaut, Fri Aug 03 2012, 10:21PM
I can't really get into much detail on the specifics, but the client will be happy with the results.
In my last version (much uglier design), I removed diamonds and kiberlite from solid rock core (video here)...
This version was pumped by a 14.4kv pole transformer and had some case arcing problems.
I am hoping to find funding to purchase 5 new Maxwell pulse caps and make a version that can be used to process tons of sample.
Brad
Oneironaut, Fri Aug 03 2012, 10:21PM
HighVoltageChick wrote ...
Amethysts are so pretty. You should have found a way to just cleave it, not burst it into a trillion pieces! And where did you get the amethyst anyways?
Amethysts are so pretty. You should have found a way to just cleave it, not burst it into a trillion pieces! And where did you get the amethyst anyways?
I can't really get into much detail on the specifics, but the client will be happy with the results.
In my last version (much uglier design), I removed diamonds and kiberlite from solid rock core (video here)...
This version was pumped by a 14.4kv pole transformer and had some case arcing problems.
I am hoping to find funding to purchase 5 new Maxwell pulse caps and make a version that can be used to process tons of sample.
Brad
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
radiotech, Tue Aug 07 2012, 12:44AM
This technology reminds me of a sonic cavitation device called an eroder that
is used to machine extremely hard materials. The spark in the liquid causes transfer
of the energy by cavitation bubbles.
Is this how your machine works?
radiotech, Tue Aug 07 2012, 12:44AM
This technology reminds me of a sonic cavitation device called an eroder that
is used to machine extremely hard materials. The spark in the liquid causes transfer
of the energy by cavitation bubbles.
Is this how your machine works?
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Ash Small, Tue Aug 07 2012, 10:06AM
Is the liquid in the disaggregation vessel kerosene?
Ash Small, Tue Aug 07 2012, 10:06AM
Is the liquid in the disaggregation vessel kerosene?
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 08 2012, 01:25PM
This machine dissagregates minerals perfectly at their boundarys, separating the rock into its largest perfect individual components with no chipping or fracturing. The liquid is just tap water.
This is much better than crushing to extract precious minerals as that process also breaks many of the larger grains.
This machine does it in a few nanoseconds... just a single pulse needed.
Brad
Oneironaut, Wed Aug 08 2012, 01:25PM
This machine dissagregates minerals perfectly at their boundarys, separating the rock into its largest perfect individual components with no chipping or fracturing. The liquid is just tap water.
This is much better than crushing to extract precious minerals as that process also breaks many of the larger grains.
This machine does it in a few nanoseconds... just a single pulse needed.
Brad
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Steve Conner, Wed Aug 08 2012, 02:10PM
I thought it would have to be water, surely if the vessel were filled with kerosene it would explode or catch fire?
The high voltage research group at my university built a rock drill powered by three Marx generators, fired repetitively one after the other to create a rotating plasma. This seems like a more marketable idea though, seeing as it recovers valuable material from rocks.
Steve Conner, Wed Aug 08 2012, 02:10PM
I thought it would have to be water, surely if the vessel were filled with kerosene it would explode or catch fire?
The high voltage research group at my university built a rock drill powered by three Marx generators, fired repetitively one after the other to create a rotating plasma. This seems like a more marketable idea though, seeing as it recovers valuable material from rocks.
Re: 200 Kilovolts VS Amethyst
Ash Small, Wed Aug 08 2012, 07:01PM
Spark eroders of the type Radiotech was (presumably) referring to above generally use kerosene/paraffin as the dielectric, although I've also successfully used glycerine as well. Antifreeze (ethylene glycol) should work as well.
The discharge is below the surface, so no oxygen is available for combustion to take place. The flashpoint of kerosene is also quite high, but I've never discharged 200kV into it.
Presumably this setup is powerful enough to reduce H2O to hydrogen and oxygen, which, well....BOOM!
(The colour of the liquid in the chamber looks similar to kerosene, that's why I asked, but this is presumably caused by by-products from the process.)
Ash Small, Wed Aug 08 2012, 07:01PM
Steve Conner wrote ...
I thought it would have to be water, surely if the vessel were filled with kerosene it would explode or catch fire?
I thought it would have to be water, surely if the vessel were filled with kerosene it would explode or catch fire?
Spark eroders of the type Radiotech was (presumably) referring to above generally use kerosene/paraffin as the dielectric, although I've also successfully used glycerine as well. Antifreeze (ethylene glycol) should work as well.
The discharge is below the surface, so no oxygen is available for combustion to take place. The flashpoint of kerosene is also quite high, but I've never discharged 200kV into it.
Presumably this setup is powerful enough to reduce H2O to hydrogen and oxygen, which, well....BOOM!
(The colour of the liquid in the chamber looks similar to kerosene, that's why I asked, but this is presumably caused by by-products from the process.)
Print this page