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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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PEM Fuel Cells and Thier Cost.

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Carbon_Rod
Tue May 31 2016, 08:23PM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
"without enormous government subsidies fuel cells and solar cells wouldn't last at all in the market place"
This may hold true for domestically manufactured stuff...
However, classic thin film Amorphous silicon cells are part of China's internal Energy policy, and this feeds into the consumer market production chain. Recall, communist governments will often fully subsidize labour costs for state projects, and more than one domestic company has foolishly attempted to compete in this market. A gov subsidy will not change this global market dynamic, as your competition will be dumping the stuff in volumes you could never scale up to meet.

Panel manufacturers are now so prolific due to the cell price drop, that they started to omit reverse bypass diode cell array protection for large panels. Note, if one cell is shaded (e.x. bird droppings) or fails with no bypass path, in rare cases it can cause a hot spot intense enough to cause a fire. If your panels are not made out of glass/metal, done at home, or cheap stuff out of China/India... hope it is low power enough to be irrelevant. However, commercial enterprises use Thermal imaging on RC quads to inspect for failing cells.

As with any technology, there is no universal solution that is optimal for every scenario.
I believe Hydrogen is a great idea for aerospace, but liquid Peroxide researchers have some valid (albeit old) arguments too.

@Bored Chemist
There are a few books that cover the chemistry in detail, and document about a dozen or more other common side reactions.

"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." ( H. L. Mencken )
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Patrick
Wed Jun 01 2016, 05:48PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
And what about the electrolyzer? why are they so expensive ?
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Carbon_Rod
Wed Jun 01 2016, 06:43PM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
Many Electrolysis set-ups use around 15g-20g Sodium Hydroxide per 1L of deionized water.
Deionized water is important as things like this can happen:
2(NaCl)(aq) + 2(H2O)(l) → (H2)(g) + (Cl2)(g) + 2(NaOH)(aq)

In general, electrolysis plate materials must each deal with the oxidation or reduction states without contamination of the generated gas.
I suspect the manufacturers are not using graphite, and likely wanted something that would function for at least 1 year of daily use.
There is also the issue of putting the gas into storage bottles....
wink
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