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Encountered issue with parents and high voltage

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LAN_403

Killa-X

Thu Sept 16 2010, 11:41PM

Registered Member #1643 Joined: Mon Aug 18 2008, 06:10PM
Location:
Posts: 1039

I dont own a pole pig. I said the minute i move out and have my own house, I'm buying one. But I dont own one. I only have MOTs and Neon transformers.

When doing my tesla coil, my TV doesnt screw up. Only the touch lamp upstairs is messed up. The touch sensor fires every break. I think though yesterday they said the 100W floods in the kitchen were acting funny when I was arcing. Else, the lamp. When My mots are off, and I discharge my capacitors, my FL flicks.

Also, my dad BOUGHT me a mini fire extinguisher for my room. So, I dont see whats the issue.

the_anomaly

Fri Sept 17 2010, 12:35AM

Registered Member #19 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 03:19PM
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 168

When I was younger my parents asked whether it was dangerous and of course I allways told the truth. But later on they just stopped worrying and I could buy what I wanted. Kinda like Marko's situation I used to tell my folks how much energy was in my cap bank and how many times it could theoreticly stop a human heart and it never seemed to phase them. When we moved overseas for the second time my folks allways said they picked the house because it had a basement with a few rooms that I could use for my lab. The basement was on a different fuse from the rest of the house and my dad used to get a big kick out of when I blew a fuse. It would go pitch black but only in the basement and I'd start shouting for help and they allways thought I was scared of the dark. Changing fuses with my dad went something like this:

Dad: 'Which fuse did you blow'
me: 'that one'
dad: 'theres no fuse in the socket'
me: 'yea I know, I took it out'
dad: 'well what was it rated?!'
me: '10 amps'
dad: 'I don't want you sticking a 10 amp fuse where a 5 amp came from'
me: 'dad, it said 10 amps when I pulled it'
dad: 'where is the blown one'
me: 'In the box with the rest of the blown ones'
dad: 'greaaat, now we don't know what it was rated'

...

Killa-X

Fri Sept 17 2010, 01:22AM

Registered Member #1643 Joined: Mon Aug 18 2008, 06:10PM
Location:
Posts: 1039

Heh. Well, Its the same way here. I was told NO giant capacitors. I tried 3 times, and my dad always told my brother DON'T buy them. So, as I advanced and made stuff from trash, like tesla coils from wallwarts, he started to see there wasn't a point. So the next time I asked my brother, I bought 2KJ worth of large capacitors. And he now doesn't care that I have them.

Tesla coils, he said NO arcs over 1". I broke that rule with the same transformer I had doing 1cm. Now, He doesn't care that I'm doing 30 inches.

So...Eventually...

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Fri Sept 17 2010, 04:42AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

I'm not going to do a long winded thing because I'm tired and everybody already knows the story:

1. They don't want you doing it because this SH#$ is dangerous.

2. I know for a fact that it isn't inside a housing with insulators and all that to protect you. I don't even have to see a picture to know they think its going to kill you, and that it's not safe in a practical way.

3. Bare in mind that THEY CARE! They may not know how to express that, but they do. They're probably having more of a problem reaching you because you are being a pain in the ass, I know I was.

4. As an adult I do see things differently, and I have pleaded with severel ex memebers from around here to be thoughtful, careful, and stay safe.
We don't like to hear about, or think about unfortunate accidents when all that was trying to be accomplished was the persuit of knowledge.

Anyway, keep it safe and respect the fire or you will get burned eventually.

Killa-X

Fri Sept 17 2010, 04:59AM

Registered Member #1643 Joined: Mon Aug 18 2008, 06:10PM
Location:
Posts: 1039

Just so you know.

1. It is cased and has insulators to prevent flaming up the acrylic.

2. I'm aware of the dangers. Hince the reason I have a 3rd long PVC pipe with 15" metal rod. Far distance from the arcs. Also, as stated in the past there's a 'fire' extengluisger in the room.

The issue is when people start to let their guard down as they get use to it. No matter the voltage, I'm highly alert of were every single wire I'd before plugging it in, and switching it on. I even use chicken sticks for 1kv FL drivers and flybacks. I never hold the wire, yet my teacher shows a bad example holding 12/30 NST ladder rods with a pliers not rated for highvoltge. He even said it shocks you occasionally! Wooooooow...

radiotech

Fri Sept 17 2010, 07:26AM

Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546

Since this is the internet, and parents have been known to use same, perhaps a new forum could be started where parents of HV'ers could discuss their concerns with each other and share experiences with their families and the learning processes.
Recently on a local community radio show, ham radio,a music festival electric system setup, Edison & Tesla were discussed and the final point was the 'Coiler Community' and how hobby groups could get info and guidance from 4HV. Thats out there on a podcast and also rebroadcasted at various times on the air.

Muttyfutty!

Fri Sept 17 2010, 08:50AM

Registered Member #2915 Joined: Fri Jun 11 2010, 10:41AM
Location: Malaysia!
Posts: 101

@Hazmatt- In My Humble Opinion...
I agree with your points, but I personally think that because some parents
are ignorant they perceive things as dangerous.
If you take the necessary precautions HV is relatively safe, Its only when you start
messing around things get ugly. My dad always overseas myself whenever I power up any
piece of HV equipment, weather it be a tiny flyback, to my resonant MOT stack.

Chris Russell

Fri Sept 17 2010, 09:12AM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

I think that the issues many coilers experience with their parents at home is sort of a microcosm of the greater difficulties that amateur scientists have to face with members of the general public.

In both cases, I strongly feel that the cure is the same: educate, educate, educate. It's strongly tempting to push away or keep silent in the face of unfair criticism, but don't miss out on an opportunity to engage someone not familiar with the hobby.

If you want to be treated like a responsible adult, try acting like one and see if your parents are receptive. Offer to put on a demonstration for them, and tell them that they are free to ask questions. Explain what you're doing with regards to safety, and let them know that safety is always your highest priority. Show them some of the safeguards that you've built into your equipment and/or experiments, and explain how they help to keep you safe. You might also consider talking a little bit about what you've learned, and what career/education paths you think your hobby might help open up for you.

As Matt said above, keep in mind that they care about you, and want you to be safe. If you can approach them in a honest and open manner, you may be able to put their minds at ease, or at least reach a reasonable compromise.

HV Enthusiast

Fri Sept 17 2010, 12:13PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

As Chris said, education is key here.

However, as a father of 3 myself, you can't really blame the parents for being worred and or concerned. Thats just a fact of life. If you look at the facts, you have absolutely zero liability here. If something gets damaged, its yours parents responsibility. If someone gets hurt, its your parents responsibility. The house, which THEY pay for, is there responsibility, so sure they're going to be concerned.

Personally, I wouldn't allow my kids to experiment with any projects using line voltage period unless they were fully supervised. I would totally support their endeavors and hobbies, but only when supervised. Its just too dangerous and I repeatedly see (especially on these HV forums) people being too complacent around it - especially when it comes to MOTs which in my opinion are the most dangerous electric thing available. (Sure, you may argue pole transformers are more dangerous, but they are larger and scarier looking which just commands respect, while MOTs are small, cute, and almost harmless looking size-wise which just makes them so much more lethal)

I know it may suck now, but once you're a parent yourself, you'll understand.

And so funny to see kids wanting to move out in a hurry. You kids don't know realize how easy you got it. Free food, free house, no bills - what more can you ask for!

Again, as Chris stated, just sit down with your parents, explain them what you want to do, what you will learn by doing it, how it will help your studies, and they may actually be receptive to it. Like he said, act like an adult, and be treated like one.

HM_Murdock

Fri Sept 17 2010, 01:54PM

Registered Member #3075 Joined: Fri Aug 06 2010, 02:44PM
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 148

Killa-X wrote ...

So, no matter what the outcome of this is, all I can say is that it was one of the fun luniest moments of my life...All I had to say was "Can't wait till I move out soon." honestly...can't wait. Â Annoying pests when it comes to things I love to do.

So, no word yet what is going to happen. Things I was told I'm sure you've all heard.

"Fire hazard to ladder, it will burn the house down!"
"If you burn the house down and sister dies, well be bad parents lettin you do it!"
Etc. It's hard to make a fire when a ladder arcs point to point...not randomly arcing to nothing around it to make a fire. I was told "you promised you wouldn't ladder and you lied" which is a lie because I NEVER make promises, and he never even told me I couldn't...so

Like the guys above have said, try approaching them from their point of view. I would be willing to bet you anything that are just scared and worried you are going to do harm to yourself, others, or nearby property. You remind me a lot of my oldest son (who is almost 20) when he was 15...he thought the same thing about us. It's part of the natural cycle of life...young men want to stretch their wings and fly, and parents are worried they are not ready yet.

Try talking with them, and getting them to agree to let you set up a 'show and tell' session for them in a controlled area. Address their specific fears...realize, all they see is something that looks dangerous and deadly. You have to reach out and say "I understand this is dangerous, but there are safe ways to work with it. I would like to demonstrate what is going on and how to use the safety measures I have learned."

Let them see it in operation...let them hold the chicken stick...purposefully put something (paper?) near the ladder (a few inches away) to demonstrate how difficult it is to catch something on fire that is more than a few inches away from the ladder. Maybe even show them (with a chicken stick, of course) where things DO catch fire in a ladder, so they see that you understand the limitations and how to avoid that situation.

Remember...

1- They don't understand what you are playing around with...you have to reach out to them on their level, affirm their concerns (as they ARE valid concerns), and address them and make them understand how you are avoiding the dangers.

2- Try to involve them in a demonstration Q/A session. Get them involved with it.

3- See if one of them would be interested in supervising your experiments...if they are involved when you power-up, and you can show them your safety measures, they may be more cooperative.

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