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4hv.org :: Forums :: Tesla Coils
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power supply...NST vs. FBT

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Adam Munich
Tue Aug 31 2010, 12:41AM
Adam Munich Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
That number is interesting because if you square it you'll get that same number plus one, I though it was kinda interesting.

111,111,111 ^ 2 = 12345678987654321
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HM_Murdock
Tue Aug 31 2010, 01:53AM
HM_Murdock Registered Member #3075 Joined: Fri Aug 06 2010, 02:44PM
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 148
ok...see if I have this right...

To get a LTR cap for my 9kV/30mA NST, I need to go to .0142 uF (which is .0088 x 1.61803399)

If I go LTR, I can simply use a safety gap for an economical protection measure (I am also going to use a multiple series spark gap). Will not provide the protection of a Terry Filter, but I also don't plan on pushing my spark gaps out too far as I have plenty of overhead in the NST for the size TC I am building.

The ground for the NST, safety gap, strike ring, and secondary should all go to the external ground wire running to my grounding rod outside (nothing on the green from the mains)

Will a power strip serve as adequate surge protection for the mains, or is this even needed with all grounds going external?

Or, am I being over-cautious, and I can just use the mains ground for everything with an NST this small, put in the safety gap, plug it into the surge protector power strip, and call it a day?
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Adam Munich
Tue Aug 31 2010, 02:43AM
Adam Munich Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

Here's a snippet from this article regarding grounding. It explains it very well.

wrote ...

Grounding is important for safety and proper operation of the coil. The Tesla coil should have two separate grounds.

The first ground is the house or building ground. This is the green wire in the electrical outlets.

The second ground is called the RF ground. This ground should be connected to a metal grounding rod that you pound into the ground. Although there is already a ground rod installed outside homes and buildings, you should not connect to this rod because it's connected to the house or building ground. You'll have to pound in your own ground rod. The grounding rod should be as close as possible to the Tesla coil, and as far from the house or building ground rod as possible. Generally 6 or 8 foot minimum depth is recommended, but it really depends on soil conditions and other factors. Deeper is always better. Several shorter ground rods can be placed around the Tesla coil if a single rod can't be used. If the ground is very hard, rocky or dry, you can place a piece of metal plate, chicken wire or mesh under the Tesla coil and use it as your RF grounding. The radius of the plate or mesh should be approximately equal to the height of the secondary coil and top load. This type of ground is called a "counterpoise". If you don't have access to a ground rod or counterpoise, you can connect to a cold water pipe. As a last resort, if you're on a ground floor that's at least semi-conductive you can wet the floor and put a layer of aluminum foil down. This is not recommended for safety reasons and you'll have to use this method at your own risk. Braided copper wire can help the conductance of the RF ground, but regular wire will work just fine. Wetting the ground around the ground rod before running the coil helps conductivity to the earth. Be careful not to damage underground utilities when hammering in the ground rod. Poor RF grounding may not have any apparent effect on the Tesla coil - or it could cause reduced arc length, arcing up the secondary coil, or arcing between the primary and secondary coils.
warning

Proper grounding is extremely important.

Proper grounding of a Tesla coil has been debated for quite some time. The general consensus is to connect anything you will touch during operation of the Tesla coil to the house or building ground. Anything that may be struck by an arc, or that may experience high voltage transients, should be connected to RF ground. The general idea is to pass all high voltage generated by the Tesla coil to the RF ground. We also need to prevent any high voltage spikes making their way into the house or building wiring. The NST seems to be a good boundary between the house wiring and the Tesla coil wiring because the primary and secondary windings are basically isolated from each other. Therefore, anything connected between the house outlet and the NST primary (variac, control panel, line filter) should be grounded to the house ground. The bottom of the secondary coil, the primary strike rail, NST protection gap and filter should be connected to RF ground. Grounding the NST case seems to have caused the most confusion. I recommend connecting it to the RF ground because it's usually more likely to be struck by an arc or experience a voltage spike.
warning

Using separate grounds on the NST input and NST case can cause a potentially dangerous situation if the NST is connected to the house wiring, the RF ground is disconnected and a short develops between the windings and the case. In this condition someone could be shocked if they touch the NST case because the case in not grounded.

There is no absolute rule for proper Tesla coil grounding. It's your responsibility to understand the electrical principals of grounding, seek advice and information, take your situation into account and anticipate potential dangers.
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HM_Murdock
Tue Aug 31 2010, 01:03PM
HM_Murdock Registered Member #3075 Joined: Fri Aug 06 2010, 02:44PM
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 148
Thanks Grenadier! That clears up my confusion on the grounding issue and gives me ideas for my RF grounding(kitchen is on the 2nd floor)...I happen to have a metal plate about the size of my secondary. I figure with that AND some chicken wire on it, that will make a decent counterpoise under the kitchen table.


Corrected design assumptions now...bold text respresents unanswered assumptions (again, please correct or point me to educational source for more info on any of these...thanks!)



To get a LTR cap for my 9kV/30mA NST, I need to go to .0142 uF (which is .0088 x 1.61803399)

If I go LTR, I can simply use a safety gap for an economical protection measure (I am also going to use a multiple series spark gap). Will not provide the protection of a Terry Filter, but I also don't plan on pushing my spark gaps out too far as I have plenty of overhead in the NST for the size TC I am building.

The CASE of the NST, the safety gap, strike ring, and secondary should all go to the RF ground wire running to my counterpoise. Standard connection (black, white, green) on the NST 120V side from the mains.

Will a power strip serve as adequate surge protection for the mains, or do I need a true in-line fuse on the 120V side?
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Adam Munich
Tue Aug 31 2010, 01:14PM
Adam Munich Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
The NST isn't going to feed power back into the mains, so the strip isn't necessary. You may still use it if you're paranoid though, in which case it'll be enough.

A less bulky solution is to put a varister in // with the NST. Any voltage spike that may develop will be shorted by the varister. You can pick them up at radioshack for about three fiddy.
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HM_Murdock
Tue Aug 31 2010, 03:41PM
HM_Murdock Registered Member #3075 Joined: Fri Aug 06 2010, 02:44PM
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 148
I don't mind the power strip...provides a lighted on/off switch, a bit of length added to my power cable, and the added bonus of the protection.

Though I do not rely on the switch completely...still physically unplug the NST from the strip after turning it off...call me paranoid, but the last thing I want is to have is one of our dogs or cats jump onto that strip and hit the button while I am working on it...ZAPP!

Thanks again for the help...all I have left to do is study up on how to pick the components and construct the MMC...

Any suggested reading on this subject?
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Adam Munich
Tue Aug 31 2010, 09:53PM
Adam Munich Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
Digikey has pretty much everything you could possibly need. If you're using a 9kV NST, get some 12 or 15kV caps so they don't all die on you in case of a voltage spike.
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