Welcome
Username or Email:

Password:


Missing Code




[ ]
[ ]
Online
  • Guests: 30
  • Members: 0
  • Newest Member: omjtest
  • Most ever online: 396
    Guests: 396, Members: 0 on 12 Jan : 12:51
Members Birthdays:
All today's birthdays', congrats!
Sync (33)
Grant-ZA (58)
FreakyG (56)
brtaman (38)


Next birthdays
04/23 Kipmans (35)
04/23 DuartmaN (48)
04/24 Jack (14)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • Andrew Haynes
  • Anonymous000
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Blitzorn
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Davis
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • E.TexasTesla
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Gordon Mcknight
  • Graham Armitage
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jeff Thomas
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • mbd
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • nicklenorp
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • smiffy
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Thomas W
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • vasil
  • Vaxian
  • vladi mazzilli
  • wastehl
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: Tesla Coils
« Previous topic | Next topic »   

Relating frequency and voltage

Move Thread LAN_403
Dr. Dark Current
Thu Mar 18 2010, 11:11PM
Dr. Dark Current Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384
The more you increase frequency the more drive power you need for the same voltage output, because the capacitive current from secondary top to the surroundings increase and spark "thickness" and temperature increases.

So if you wanted to design a coil with say 1MHz frequency and 1MV output, you might as well end up with megawatts of input power. On the other hand, 1MV at 50/60Hz produces just a bit of corona.

So I would say that theoretically everything is possible, practically not, because with increasing frequency you need to drop the voltage for the same power.
Back to top
EvilTesla-RG
Fri Mar 19 2010, 01:18AM
EvilTesla-RG Registered Member #1523 Joined: Sat Jun 07 2008, 02:05PM
Location:
Posts: 97
Ah.

I see. So increasing power will increase the spark length per frequency
Back to top
dex
Fri Mar 19 2010, 10:59AM
dex Registered Member #2566 Joined: Wed Dec 23 2009, 05:52PM
Location:
Posts: 147
EvilTesla-RG wrote ...

Yes, but how are these bounds related?

What I really want to do, is create an equation that relates frequency and voltage approxamatly.

So that if we have a frequency X, and voltage Y. Where it is quite possible to build a Tesla Coil at frequency X and a Tesla Coil at Voltage Y.


Y^2 ~ 12.56*P*L*X

P=peak power,L=secondary inductance
Back to top
Steve Conner
Fri Mar 19 2010, 11:19AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
I guess that's correct, but you should also be aware that L is related to the frequency.

If we say that C is roughly constant because stray capacitance places a lower bound on it, then:

f = 1/(2*pi*sqrt(LC))

hence for C constant, f is proportional to 1/(2*pi*sqrt(L))

square both sides: f^2 is proportional to 1/(4*pi^2*L)

dex's proposed equation:

V^2 = 4*pi*P*L*f
= (1/f)*4*pi*P*L*f^2

substituting:

V^2 is proportional to (1/f)(4*pi*P*L)/(4*pi^2*L)

cancelling out stuff:
V^2 is proportional to P/(pi*F)

since it's proportional, we can just toss out the factor of pi too

V^2 is proportional to P/F

So (assuming dex's original equation was true :) ) the higher the frequency you want, the more power you will need to produce a given voltage. If you want twice the frequency, you need twice the power.

I used this PSpice simulation set: Link2 to simulate DRSSTCs, along with the old FANTC simulator to work out the coupling and resonant modes.
Back to top
dex
Fri Mar 19 2010, 11:45AM
dex Registered Member #2566 Joined: Wed Dec 23 2009, 05:52PM
Location:
Posts: 147
L in the equation is a "low frequency inductance" . Sometimes it is called DC inductance of secondary.It can be easily measured or calculated.This value of L is quite a good represantative of a 1/4 wave resonant coil terminated with big toroid.OTOH,corresponding self capacity (C) is problem to measure or calculate.It differs much more from low frequency C value in the equivalent equation.That's reason why is L more convenient parameter to use.
Back to top
EvilTesla-RG
Sat Mar 20 2010, 02:56AM
EvilTesla-RG Registered Member #1523 Joined: Sat Jun 07 2008, 02:05PM
Location:
Posts: 97
Ah!!

Very interesting, thanks!!

This is pretty much what I was looking for.
Back to top

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob

Go to:

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.