Stuck Toyota accelerators / General Chatting / Forums

Forums

4hv.org :: Forums :: General Chatting

« Previous topic | Next topic »

Stuck Toyota accelerators

previous 1 2 3 next

Move Thread

LAN_403

klugesmith

Fri Mar 12 2010, 05:27AM

Registered Member #2099 Joined: Wed Apr 29 2009, 12:22AM
Location: Los Altos, California
Posts: 1716

I bet it's public hysteria whipped up by publicity-hungry fraudsters, reporters, and lawyers.

Here's one juicy follow-up:

Here are 2 places ABC deliberately faked a TV news story.

[edit] On any car, something is wrong with the brakes if they are not stronger than the engine.
* Compare the 0-to-60mph acceleration distance with 60-to-0 stopping distance.
* Brakes can apply enough torque to lock the wheels at top speed, while it takes an exceptional engine to break the tires loose even in first gear.
* Preparing for a drag race (for example), a car with automatic transmission can be held stationary with the brakes even while the throttle is wide-open.

I do respect the argument that with wide-open throttle, you can rapidly lose the vacuum supply to power-assisted brakes.
In a runaway engine case, don't just brake to limit the speed -- the brakes will soon overheat. Brake to STOP the car as soon as possible; after that there's no further brake heating no matter what the engine does.

Ben

Fri Mar 12 2010, 03:41PM

Vigilatny
Registered Member #17 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:47PM
Location: NL
Posts: 158

If you're paranoid you could just install one of these

HV Enthusiast

Fri Mar 12 2010, 04:31PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

Klugesmith wrote ...

I bet it's public hysteria whipped up by publicity-hungry fraudsters, reporters, and lawyers.

Or more likely hysteria whipped up by american car makers such as GM to discredit Toyota and regain some of their loss profit margin.

I bet the same sort of thing happens with all car makes, it just doesn't get reported, hyped up, etc...

Dave Marshall

Fri Mar 12 2010, 10:49PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

Ben. That is a hell of a thing. Given the equipment in my truck, a fire is always a concern. I fuse everything, but that doesn't *always* prevent a problem. A kill switch like that would be a heck of a fail safe.

As for this instance though, if your alternator still functioned, it wouldn't likely kill the engine completely.

-Dave

Chris Russell

Fri Mar 12 2010, 11:42PM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

In the case of a stuck accelerator, a relay to disconnect power to the fuel pump would be a bit better, as the rest of the car's electrical system would remain functional. That way you wouldn't lose headlights, emergency flashers, etc, as soon as the kill switch is activated.

radiotech

Sat Mar 13 2010, 03:17AM

Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546

We had a term for the emergengy ram braking of electric drives. It was called the drive suicide for DC and plug stopping for AC.
Essentially you forced current through the motor to make it run reverse to the direction is was going and continued until full stop was detected.On DC log carriages, the prime driver had a flywheel on the generator big enough to store enough energy in case of power failure. Hybrids could be made to stop this way, whether or not they would they would ever start again depends on design.

Steve Conner

Sat Mar 13 2010, 10:32AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Dave Marshall wrote ...

Ben. That is a hell of a thing. Given the equipment in my truck, a fire is always a concern. I fuse everything, but that doesn't *always* prevent a problem. A kill switch like that would be a heck of a fail safe.

Dave: Would definitely recommend it for your truck. Cheaper ones are available, that thing is racing grade. I've used a $15 version in the past. (I found that 100,000uF cap for you, by the way.)

The downside to a kill switch is that you can't have it killing power to your car stereo and alarm system. Some stereos have a PIN code that needs reset every time the battery is disconnected.

Oh, and older diesel engines have mechanical fuel injection, so killing the power won't necessarily stop them. I think they have a solenoid on the injection pump that cuts the fuel off when power is lost, though.

Dave Marshall

Sun Mar 14 2010, 01:56PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

A particularly good example of the hysteria that's surrounding Toyota now, and the vultures that are taking advantage of it to the fullest. The assclown did a masterful job obviously, he fooled the CHP and the media. He just floored it and pretended to do everything they told him to do, then eventually stopped the car of his own accord.

There was another instance reported today in NYC. This isn't coincidence or mechanical failure. Somebody saw the news coverage earlier this week, realized how easy it is to claim, and saw dollar signs. This is a group of greedy scum hoping for a payday.

-Dave

Conundrum

Sun Mar 14 2010, 02:08PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

hmm... this would suggest a MAJOR problem, as this is an expert in car design.

I wonder if we can blame this on cheap counterfeit capacitors causing strange glitches.
I know a camcorder repair guy very well and he has seen every failure you can imagine plus some caused by leaking electrolytics.

the problem is that the designers never intended capacitors to leak, so paths form where they normally would not. One in n (where n is a large number) results in an unwanted acceleration event under certain combinations of humidity and temperature... !

-A

Dave Marshall

Sun Mar 14 2010, 02:25PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

Except I see no external scientific vetting to his claims. He attaches a bunch of crap to the car that *mimics this hypothetical scenario*.

I'm not claiming there isn't a problem. I'm not even saying this guy is wrong, but do I really need to point out the hundreds of instances of scholars in various fields lying through their teeth for fun and profit? It would be folly to believe his claims carte blache with absolutely no information beyond what he says. The article does not indicate any adherence to the scientific method what so ever. He draws a conclusion, and comes up with a way to make the car meet his conclusion. Pseudoscience by its very definition. Maybe he spent weeks formulating hypotheses, testing them, and rejecting them, but the article and his interview surely don't appear to support that conclusion.

There very well could be a major issue, but the events in the news the last 5 days have illustrated beautifully that this is NOT a case of massive vehicle malfunctions endangering thousands at this point. Its .001% of the manufacturer's entire road presence, over the course of 5 years.

The 'hundreds of malfunctions' are drivers seeing a way out of responsibility for accidents they caused by inattention, or scam artists seeing dollar signs from a potential lawsuit. Ambulance chasing lawyers in this country are foaming at the mouth about all this. There are already commercials on TV "Been hurt by a Toyota vehicle accelerating out of control? Call 1-800-SUE-EVERYONE"

The article I posted above even shows that there is a *BUILT IN* safety device in case something precisely like this happens. If the throttle is open (mechanically or electrically induced) at the same time the brakes are depressed to the floor in a Prius, the engine shuts itself off. The chances of both of these mechanisms failing simultaneously on more than one vehicle are so remote as to be laughable.

This doesn't apply to other Toyota vehicles, but I can find no other credible reports of vehicle beyond the Prius having anything more than the accelerator pedal mechanical issue. Doesn't mean they haven't, but there is no evidence available to the public or media yet.

I've made my point. People are falling for the fear mongering of the media hook line and sinker on this one, forum members included. I'll get off my soap box now, and go back to working on my Tundra.

-Dave

previous 1 2 3 next

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob