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Registered Member #1361
Joined: Thu Feb 28 2008, 10:57AM
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 305
The laser pointer laws may be a bit tight, but I definitely think they are needed. I own a few lasers, however mostly for lasershow use, but do have a pointer or 2 laying around. However, in the right hands they can be very useful tools (ie, astronomy), but it's the other 0.01% that makes these things look like deadly weapons. If I was a pilot I sure as heck wouldn't like being hit in the face with a laser, especially when so many peoples lives are at risk, but some people ... lets just say, "less intelligent" than others
Although, lasers over 5mW aren't really needed. 5mW of green is more than enough for astronomy, presentations and whatever else you need a green pointer for. Lately I have seen a huge increase of cheap Chinese websites selling cheap laser pointers. Dealextreme was the first, but obviously the FDA cracked down on then and they don't ship lasers over 5mW to the US, but as soon as that happened, people started reshipping to the US, and many more cheap websites opened up. I think action needs to be taken against these cheap websites! The "less intelligent" people shining lasers at planes aren't going to go and buy a high powered FDA approved laser pointer so they can shine it at an airplane. "Abuse it and loose it".
Many people have brought up adding a coating to the cockpit window, and while it could be beneficial, it would be an extremely expensive operation, and still wouldn't stop people using these pointers irresponsibly.
For example, I was doing a lasershow at a school disco (Safely, of course), and noticed someone was shining a laser around in the crowd. It was hitting people right in the face, and directed at the mirror bal hanging from the roof multiple times which also ended up back down in the crowd, and also into my face! This could have been bad for me too, as I was monitoring making sure the laser was always over the kids heads (They won't stay off the stage), and was unable to properly read the monitor for a minute or 2, but luckily was able to see the laser disable button.
We later found that the person with the pointer was actually a TEACHER! We informed him that the pointer was illegal, and we didn't see it again after that, but it was a close call. IMO pointers over 5mW need to be removed from the consumer market and available only to people who have proven themselves capable of owning such a device.
Registered Member #63
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425
lpfthings wrote ... IMO pointers over 5mW need to be removed from the consumer market and available only to people who have proven themselves capable of owning such a device.
Just my opinion on the matter
Prove themselves capable of owning a laser? So everybody is guilty until they prove themselves innocent? Incapable until proven capable?
You informed the teacher there was a danger pointing the laser at the mirror ball, and he ceased. No police presence required.
Bugger special glasses, coatings, films and other post-idiocy measures. Catch and prosecute people who point lasers at planes. If a reasonable, well-documented jail sentence does not discourage idiots, that is no excuse to criminalize non-idiot laser ownership.
Regardless of any reasonable penalty, determined troublemakers who think they're clever will still try.
If the penalty for improper use is reasonably harsh, casual idiots might not want to risk pointing it in the sky.
If an ownership penalty applies, casual idiots won't care where they point it because the crime is ownership.
I wouldn't be surprised if stupid laws encouraged juveniles to blind police out of spite. How can you expect people to respect a contemptible authority?
Registered Member #16
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554
Blackplasma, I would *love* to hear your thoughts on exactly how we go about catching folks on the ground who are lighting up aircraft. I can tell you with certainty the U.S. Air Force is all ears. They were averaging 20 laser incidents a week in the last quarter of 2008.
Registered Member #63
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425
Dave Marshall wrote ...
Blackplasma, I would *love* to hear your thoughts on exactly how we go about catching folks on the ground who are lighting up aircraft. I can tell you with certainty the U.S. Air Force is all ears. They were averaging 20 laser incidents a week in the last quarter of 2008.
-Dave
I don't deny that it's probably both difficult and resource-intensive to report and locate offenders. You know better than I do whether pilots can determine the location of pointers on the ground, and where FLIR systems or police are available. But I steadfastly maintain that criminalization by ownership is not how to go about it.
Could a laser pointer foreseeably bring down a billion dollar plane?
Would keeping inventory of laser owners help the situation?
Is it the proliferation of lasers, or the petty-criminal-couldn't-care-less mentality poisoning increasingly larger proportions of the population, that is the problem?
Registered Member #10
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 09:45AM
Location: Bunbury, Australia
Posts: 1424
Dave Marshall wrote ...
I have a unique perspective on this one. I spent 6 years as an aviator, and I've been 'dazzled'. .....
That's interesting because it is the first and only time I have heard a first person account of a laser causing a problem to a pilot other than a distraction. I had previously thought that the natural divergence even at 1km would have reduced the power relative to pupil size by several magnitudes at least.
Registered Member #1232
Joined: Wed Jan 16 2008, 10:53PM
Location: Doon tha Toon!
Posts: 881
> I would *love* to hear your thoughts on exactly how we go about catching folks on the ground who are lighting up aircraft...
Wide-angle CCD camera with green filter, fast servo system with aircraft motion compensation, and front belly mounted rapid-fire machine gun. Should reduce the number of kids with pointers willing to give it a try!
Registered Member #16
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554
I'm not saying that possession should be criminilized either, and I apologize if that was the impression I gave. I did want to make the point that catching people doing it is virtually impossible except by shear dumb luck. The two incidents I've heard of that were prosecuted in the US were both instances where the idiots lit up a police helicopter.
In a fixed wing multi-engine aircraft on approach or departure, at best a pilot could give you a 4 or 5 square block area that was the source, depending on altitude and speed. And that would only be if he was quick enough to mark his position on his GPS or was very familiar with the area.
In large aircraft, the chances of actually causing a serious crash would be remote. It would probably only be a problem if they were already flaring for landing, or within just a couple seconds of it, and below decision altitude. In that case, the pilot could lose track of his altitude very easily, and I can tell you from experience, when this happens airplanes get broken. (Not a laser, in my case, but a sudden fog bank).
I could see a small aircraft without autopilot, or a helicopter actually being brought down in a severe case though.
When I was lased, it was in all likelyhood a rather powerful device. This was in an Arab country where a disproportionate number of civilians are affluent. I frequently saw lasers in the 10mW range and larger for sale at the local malls for less than $150 US, and it was widely known by authorities and USAF personnel that kids were buying them as toys. Most incidents in that country were attributed to kids, not terrorists, and the locals frequently confiscated lasers from kids in local parks, but couldn't prosecute due to a lack of laws prohibiting it. Many of these devices were high power Chinese devices.
We had one flight engineer hospitalized as a precaution when he was hit at less than 1,500' AGL by a >10mW green laser while in a turn. He saw a starburst in the center of his field of vision for more than 4 hours afterwards.
Registered Member #15
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068
wrote ...
When I was lased, it was in all likelyhood a rather powerful device. This was in an Arab country where a disproportionate number of civilians are affluent. I frequently saw lasers in the 10mW range and larger for sale at the local malls for less than $150 US, and it was widely known by authorities and USAF personnel that kids were buying them as toys. Most incidents in that country were attributed to kids, not terrorists, and the locals frequently confiscated lasers from kids in local parks, but couldn't prosecute due to a lack of laws prohibiting it. Many of these devices were high power Chinese devices.
Yeah Dave, but in a country like that, I'm sure kids could buy a full fledged rocket launcher for about the same cost.
wrote ...
We had one flight engineer hospitalized as a precaution when he was hit at less than 1,500' AGL by a >10mW green laser while in a turn. He saw a starburst in the center of his field of vision for more than 4 hours afterwards.
We had an astronomer at a star party get hit in the eye by a laser pointer from across the field (maybe 100 yds), and he was blinded in that eye for about a week, even with prompt medical care, although the ER was probably about an hour away due to our remote location.
Registered Member #902
Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1040
lasers are great tools, but regarding regulating them, it is a matter of the operator and not the tool. In the US, most retailers (if not all) require that you be 19, not 18, to buy a laser. I would be fine with 18 so that if I were at college, I could still get a hold on one at any time for a project. However, like with compressed air which by law is 19, I would have to wait for three months after going to college to buy one. Too many objects come under fire from a bunch of idiots who are the Extreme case, but unfortunately are making the extreme class of citizen not as extreme as it should be.
Registered Member #509
Joined: Sat Feb 10 2007, 07:02AM
Location:
Posts: 329
I think we should try and start a fad of shining 50+ mW lasers into your own eye. Using viral videos of some sort or something like that. Chlorine for the gene pool.
I had a 90mW green laser at college, and I let another guy handle it, and as usual handing it over I warned that it could "blind you faster then you could even blink, keep it out of peoples eyes" No sooner then I hand it to him, he clicks it on and flips it 180 right into his face. Luckily he reconsidered what he was doing as the side flash of the beam got in his eye, and the actualy dot was around his upper lip.
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UK: BBC: Laser owners 'arrested on sight'
