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Proud Mary

Mon Sept 07 2009, 09:13PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

I have repeatedly warned other amateur scientists of the danger of falling into the clutches of the secret police. No matter that you have not harmed anyone, nor had any plans to do so, once the hallucination of 'terror' has been projected onto you by paid informers, and automated internet surveillance, your liife will be smashed to pieces in a way that cannot be readily put back together even once your innocence has been established beyond all doubt. This recent story proves my point:

Lowestoft Journal 24

'I caused Norfolk bomb scare'

Nicholas Witham, a hobbyist microscopist caused a police and bomb squad chemical alert at his home in Wroxham.
26 August 2009

The man who sparked a major police operation involving a bomb disposal unit today protested his innocence, claiming he was simply carrying out scientific experiments at his home.

Police cordoned off a home in Wroxham over the weekend and searched the property, saying they had received a call that there were chemicals on the premises.

However, today Nicholas Witham, who was arrested over the incident but has not been charged, said he only had standard chemicals in the shed at his Norwich Road home for preparing slides and specimens for his microscopes.

Mr Witham, 38, branded the police response as â€œover the topâ€ and chose to speak out in attempt to clear his name, saying he was worried his reputation had been damaged by the police presence at his family's home.

He said: â€œI still can't get over what happened. I was banged up for more than 20 hours and the police were here for two days with the house roped off.

â€œThe way the police dealt with it was totally over the top.

â€œAll I had was standard laboratory chemicals in the shed. I don't know why it escalated this far.â€

Mr Witham, who is originally from Cardiff, lived in Ireland for 10 years and took a masters degree in biotechnology at University College Cork.

He moved to Wroxham with his wife and two daughters two and a half years ago, to study for a PhD at the University of East Anglia, but has been off sick with anxiety and depression, something he claims has not been helped by his experience at the weekend.

The incident started when he said he ordered some oxidising agents and general solvents from a chemicals company at the start of August to use in his hobby of microscopy.

He said: â€œI have bought chemicals off this company before and had no problems.

â€œI spoke to the company that supplied the chemicals and they told me that if you make an order for a certain combination of chemicals then they have to inform a police liaison officer and then you are assessed to see they are suitable to be purchased by you.

â€œThe company said police normally have a chat and they had never heard of this happening to a customer before.â€

Mr Witham was arrested at 2.15pm on Friday. The bomb disposal unit from Colchester arrived on Saturday morning during the day forensic teams wearing gloves searched the house and took photographs, with police officers standing guard at the gate.

Mr Witham said: â€œThe first I knew of it I got a knock on the door on Friday at about lunchtime and they said they were from special branch and asked about me buying the chemicals on the internet.

â€œI had nothing to hide from them and so I invited them in and showed them the shed. They seemed to have no problem but then went out for an hour. Then they came back and arrested me under the explosives act.

â€œIt was a godsend my wife and two kids are in Cardiff at the moment so it was just myself here.

â€œI understand that the country has become so paranoid we can't trust our next door neighbours these days. I understand the police need to investigate everything, but there's ways and means of doing it.

â€œI think funds could have been spent better investigating other crimes.â€

Police searched the entire house and Mr Witham said they had removed his computer and a number of other items, such as papers.

He said: â€œOther people buy these chemicals and don't get victimised like this.

â€œIt's destroyed my reputation around here.â€

A spokesman for Norfolk Constabulary said: â€œOur priority is the safety of the public and we will always act on information. We were proportionate in our response.

â€œA 38-year-old man has been released on police bail and the investigation into the circumstances surrounding this incident continues."

Fraggle

Tue Sept 08 2009, 01:49AM

Registered Member #1526 Joined: Mon Jun 09 2008, 12:56AM
Location: UK
Posts: 216

That is absolutely terrifying, what they`d make of our labs I dread to think. A Tesla coil would become an `emp device` no doubt and a plasma speaker maybe a `stun-gun` or something. It genuinely makes me consider a new hobby.

Plasma Lover

Tue Sept 08 2009, 03:56AM

Registered Member #1911 Joined: Mon Jan 05 2009, 06:30PM
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
Posts: 165

As far as I am aware, this sort of search is not legally performed in the United States, so I'm lucky in that department. I find it wholly ridiculous that they can cause such a violation to what is known in America to be human rights and, if I'm not mistaken, the UK adopted the U.S. Bill of Rights. It's a tragedy that our governments are so put-off by a small quantity of oxidizers and caustic chemicals.

What happened to the day where the average science kit came with a vial of mercury for your twelve-year-old children to play with?

aonomus

Tue Sept 08 2009, 05:49AM

Registered Member #1497 Joined: Thu May 22 2008, 05:24AM
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 801

Don't forget that over the next few days media will ramp up the terror scares in the news prior to 9/11 to play off on peoples emotions. I've already seen a bunch more news articles regarding liquid bomb threats, or other 'terrorism' related things.

There are a few other examples, one was when some police in the UK raided a mad science themed halloween party.

In general, there is a lot of indoctrination going on to convince people they don't have rights. Know your rights, but document what the police do in any communications, because they have, can, and will manipulate evidence for their side without accountability for whatever reasons. There is an increase in surveillance on *everyone* including pre-emptive raids on people organizing peaceful protests, and other intimidation tactics or thuggish behavior...

And absolutely if someone attempts to get you to do anything illegal, questionable, etc with your science skills or knowledge, refuse. Alot of police are trying to trick people into being the scapegoat in the name of further terrorism scaremongering, and I wouldn't put it past law enforcement to trick people into doing illegal things.

Bored Chemist

Tue Sept 08 2009, 05:55AM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

That search was probably (IMO) a breach of the European Human Rights act and, therefore ilegal in the UK.
Illegal searches also happen in the US; and in some states (TX IIRC) it's illegal to have a 3 neck flask without a icense.
The problem isn't where you live; it's police with no idea what they are doing.

Conundrum

Tue Sept 08 2009, 04:55PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Hmm.. it would seem that the answer is not to buy chemicals on the internet...

I seem to recall a similar case in the US recently.
What is probably needed is an "Amateur Scientist" licence system similar to the current one for amateur radio, so people with suitable qualifications can work at home without harrassment from the authorities.

Plasma Lover

Tue Sept 08 2009, 05:01PM

Registered Member #1911 Joined: Mon Jan 05 2009, 06:30PM
Location: Salem, Oregon, USA
Posts: 165

Conundrum wrote ...

Hmm.. it would seem that the answer is not to buy chemicals on the internet...

I seem to recall a similar case in the US recently.
What is probably needed is an "Amateur Scientist" licence system similar to the current one for amateur radio, so people with suitable qualifications can work at home without harrassment from the authorities.

The only problem with that is that an "Amateur Scientist" likely won't have the time, nor the money, to go through the classes required and do all the paperwork necessary to become a licensed "Amateur Scientist". How about, if they don't find any explosive combination, nor any vessel that resembles a bomb, they leave you the f\/(|< alone.

Nicko

Tue Sept 08 2009, 05:28PM

Registered Member #1334 Joined: Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:37PM
Location: Nr. London, UK
Posts: 615

Not surprising, considering it's from Norfolk.

In the UK, there is a medical mnemonic, NFN.

See it at

I rest my case...

Bored Chemist

Tue Sept 08 2009, 09:01PM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

I presume the police were from Norfolk; the bloke was Welsh. Anyway, enough of the slandering locallities.
Surely the problem here is that the rule that people are innocent 'till proved guilty was ignored.

Hon1nbo

Tue Sept 08 2009, 09:19PM

Registered Member #902 Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 1042

Bored Chemist wrote ...

That search was probably (IMO) a breach of the European Human Rights act and, therefore ilegal in the UK.
Illegal searches also happen in the US; and in some states (TX IIRC) it's illegal to have a 3 neck flask without a icense.
The problem isn't where you live; it's police with no idea what they are doing.

actually, it isn't what most people think (and I do live in Texas) - in order to help decrease drug labs, if you order glassware you are supposed to place an application to the DEA, or Drug Enforcement Agency for foreigners, and essentially state that it is not for the purpose of drugs - they can ask you a specific purpose, but unless they have legitimate reason (like you being an ex-convict, they cannot deny it

it really isn't that big a deal, last i checked it just asked what glassware, what purpose, do you have a criminal record, and a signed statement that it isn't for drugs, I don't think it even has a fee associated with it

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