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<OT> Gary McKinnon

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LAN_403

Conundrum

Tue Aug 04 2009, 05:28PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Hi all.

I was concerned recently to read about a British man, Gary McKinnon who is facing serious charges for "hacking" into the US DoD and NASA, and facing life imprisonment if convicted.

The main issue here is, should someone who clearly has a developmental disorder that affects his judgement, be effectively sentenced to death to all intents and purposes when the very same offence in the UK carries a maximum sentence of two years per count.

I feel that this particular case is an outrageous misuse of powers originally intended to combat terrorism, when clearly this is a less serious issue. In fact, it proves that anyone stupid enough to use default usernames and passwords on a military system should be held accountable.

Please keep discussions on topic, and try not to start a flame war.

regards, -Andre

for further information,

Sulaiman

Tue Aug 04 2009, 06:47PM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141

I have several thoughts on this topic, the main ones are

- Why do we (UK) allow extradition laws to be one-sided?
If a US citizen hacked a UK site there is no reciprocal legal arrangement afaik.

- When the internet was young I used to 'hack' my way into all sorts of places
(no details = no prosecution!)
never with malicious intent and afaik never causing any harm.
It's like mountain climbing...why climb a mountain?...because it's there.
NOW with paranoia and me being a Muslim I daren't do such things,
I'm concerned that even visiting certain websites is an indication of guilt!

- I can't really accept (in this case) the mental disorder excuse
we're all a little mad in some way or other
and if this chap had the intelligence to 'hack' with a purpose (even a dumb one)
on multiple occasions he is surely capable of understanding his own actions.

- on the assumption that no deliberate harm to the systems was done
then I consider it like Trespass, a very minor misdemeanor.
- if deliberate damage was caused then I consider it like Vandalism, a bigger misdemeanor
- I doubt that anyone was physically, mentally or financially harmed.

- The main problem is that Governments (definitely the UK government) are careless with data. ( Think of Banks, Airlines, Utility companies etc.)
Rather than protect sensitive data properly they want 'scapegoats' as deterrents.
This is not justice, it's terrorism.

MinorityCarrier

Wed Aug 05 2009, 01:32AM

Registered Member #2123 Joined: Sat May 16 2009, 03:10AM
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 312

There should be equilateral treaties for extradition. If it is true (I don't know) that the U.K. has an one-sided extradition treaty with the U.S. concerning unlawful access to system computers, it should be re-negotiated. The onus is with the U.K. government.

However, how would you feel if this individual had hacked into your personal data/bank account and misappropriated your money, I.D., etc.? Would you think it was your fault for not using better passwords?

I don't know the details of the case, what damage if any, Mr. McKinnon inflicted. If those details are not revealed, I would tend to believe Mr. McKinnon got into classified material files and has embarrassed some folks over here. If Mr McKinnon downloaded any of that material, then it is just too bad for him. He crossed a line, and rightly or wrongly a Big Government is going to want to make an example of him. I wouldn't characterize it as a death sentence though. The prosecutor will probably work out a deal if McKinnon cooperates, he could end up being a security consultant, working from behind bars though.

Bored Chemist

Wed Aug 05 2009, 05:49AM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

Surely the simple question has nothing to do with extradition.
Why does a man with mental health problems face the a life sentence in the US for actions that harmed nobody?

Should Brittain reconsider the extradition treaty? is anothe valid question.

Sparks

Wed Aug 05 2009, 10:36AM

Registered Member #2263 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 04:57PM
Location:
Posts: 20

Apparently the reason the US want him is because not what he has done but rather what he seen

The supposed damage he caused was only raised much later and is highly dubious!

Chris Russell

Wed Aug 05 2009, 11:14AM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

Sparks wrote ...

Apparently the reason the US want him is because not what he has done but rather what he seen

The supposed damage he caused was only raised much later and is highly dubious!

I think Sparks just made the best point of all. Clearly the guy is a crackpot, and is only a danger to himself. IMHO, going after him just gives him attention he doesn't deserve, and the US should drop the extradition request on the condition that he get some serious medical help.

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Wed Aug 05 2009, 11:35AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

1. espionage is a serious crime that really really rubbs governments the wrong way.

2. He admited to exploiting the network security flaw for more then 2 years, which is not just snooping around or weekend warrior hacking.

3. He installed a program on a secure network, big no no, with the intent of taking secured information.

You don't break in and disseminate information. I'm not sure how much of a punishment there should be, but his intent is clear as are his motives, this was espionage and punishable.

Coronafix

Wed Aug 05 2009, 12:50PM

Registered Member #160 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938

Robin Hood of hackers.
Obviously not a crackpot, and in fact a guy with considerable intelligence. In no way am I supporting hacking, I have been done in via the very password scenario he describes, but his reasoning is honest. I hope the yanks don't get him, it'll show where justice has really gone.

Chris Russell

Wed Aug 05 2009, 03:30PM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

Coronafix wrote ...

Robin Hood of hackers.

In what way? What did he give to anyone that was of any value? Nothing. He claims to have seen some things, wow.

From Wikipedia:

He claims his motivation, drawn from a statement made before the Washington Press Club on 9 May 2001 by the "The Disclosure Project", was to find evidence of UFOs, antigravity technology, and the suppression of "Free Energy", all of which he claims to have proven through his actions.

That's about as crackpot as it gets. It also, IMHO, makes him pretty harmless. What he did may technically have been espionage, but he wasn't selling nuclear secrets to China nor attempting to cause harm. He may as well have hacked the US Forestry Service looking for evidence of Bigfoot. Seems to me that the US government should be thankful it was this guy and not someone who really meant to do harm.

It's not worth the bad press and lending credence to this guy's paranoid delusions. I'm sure the UK would gladly keep an eye on the guy and make sure he's taking the right medications in exchange for the US dropping the matter, so why make a martyr out of him?

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Wed Aug 05 2009, 10:39PM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Chris and a couple of you other guys are missing the bigger picture here. Containment of information is of critical importance to an orginization. If they now have a breach of security, they have to find out who and how big, then they have to exercise measures to contain, debrief, imprison, etc. That's how things are.

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