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WhatÂ´s wrong with Basic Stamp

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LAN_403

Finn Hammer

Mon Jul 27 2009, 06:38AM

Registered Member #205 Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 11:59AM
Location: SkÃ¸rping, Denmark
Posts: 741

All,

Quite frequently, when I show some work to an EE, he responds, as in a trance: "I could do that with a Microprocessor"

I thought this could be true, or not. But also that I'd better get up to speed with Microprocessors.
So when I saw this Basic Stamp Kit at the electronic store, I bought it.
I did so, because it is the only Microprocessor I knew by name, and I have already been impressed by the very well written tutorial manual that comes with the kit.

Now lately, it has been pointed out as opinions, that Basic Stamp is perhaps the least desirable of the small beginners MP's, Pickaxe (competitively priced) and others have been mentioned.

What exactly don't I get with Basic Stamp, and what do the competition offer in return?

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Lethal Shot

Mon Jul 27 2009, 08:12AM

Registered Member #1623 Joined: Tue Aug 05 2008, 03:31PM
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39

The Basic Stamp chips are actually PIC microcontrollers with a bunch of electronics around them to allow for some feature that standard PICs don't have.
This seems a good thing at first but all those components are expensive and require time from the processor so your actual code can't run as fast as it would on a pic without those components.
It is indeed well documented and easy to learn and I've programmed a lot of things with it, but I switched to the bare PIC mircos because there a lot cheaper and faster.

thedatastream

Mon Jul 27 2009, 08:15AM

Registered Member #505 Joined: Sun Nov 19 2006, 06:42PM
Location: Yorkshire!
Posts: 329

I can't offer any opinions on Basic Stamps. Microcontrollers tend to be quite a personal choice - I have never got on with PICs for instance but started on 8051 and migrated to AVR.

I now use Arduino

because it is so easy to use. Time is precious for me at the moment and having a pre-built board with pre-written libraries of code just makes my life so much easier I'm willing to take the small cost hit to buy the boards. Plus it is programmed using C which I'm familiar with.

My advice, choose something that offers an easy development that you feel comfortable using so you don't get frustrated and bin it!

My advice: buy an Arduino Duemilanove and have a play!

Happy hunting
James

Steve Conner

Mon Jul 27 2009, 09:42AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Also, if you buy 10 Arduinos you get a free nose piercing!

The Arduino is just a wrapper around the GCC toolchain for AVR, with a nice user interface to make it more appealing to art students. In terms of actual functionality, I think it's the same as AVR Studio.

What's wrong with the Basic Stamp is that it runs BASIC. It's interpreted right there on the PIC. That makes it extremely slow compared to something like an AVR programmed in C. But for non-time-critical applications it's fine, especially if you're familiar with BASIC. Old school BASIC though, not VB!

I started out my embedded career programming the 16-series PICs in assembler, with hindsight possibly the worst choice I could have made. Microchip recently started giving away "academic" versions of their PIC C compilers, so my next PIC project will use C on the 18-series.

Carbon_Rod

Mon Jul 27 2009, 10:41PM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

Steve,
Microchip C for the 18x is not even ANSI 89' compatible.
The compiler is comparable to $450/$800 alpha software.

The new DSPIC or PIC24 series compilers do offer complete type support.
(guess which parser they are using, and why they have a "student" version)

@Finn
The choice for beginners is clear if you compare to price of gcc C for AVR or Arduino...(free)
Arduino is good for beginners, but general low cost ISSP/JTAG/debug programmer units are on ebay.

Cheers,

TheBoozer

Tue Jul 28 2009, 08:43AM

Registered Member #1535 Joined: Wed Jun 11 2008, 11:37PM
Location: Northeastern Pennsylvania - USA
Posts: 117

Sadly enough I never got into C programming. I've been programming in assembly since back in the Commodore 64 days. The Atmel AVR seems like such a similar structure, that it was native to me. I agree it's a personal choice, but the AVR fits the bill for every project I've ever come up with... Avr Studio is free and the Avr programmer costs around $35.00 USD. I think the cost lured me in originally.

Nicko

Tue Jul 28 2009, 12:08PM

Registered Member #1334 Joined: Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:37PM
Location: Nr. London, UK
Posts: 615

Although my degree is in EE, I've spent most of my career in IT, specifically real-time s/w for really big systems...

As has been said elsewhere, uPs are a very personal issue - I've used most of them at some time or another, in various languages from bit-sliced microcode to assembler to C/C++/FORTRAN/whatever...

...and now I keep coming back to AVRs with AVR Studio and the win-avr toolchain. That may well be because I'm a hardcore techie at heart, but the Arduinos do look nice and very convenient. Since ATmel integrated win-avr with AVR Studio, it's a complete breeze to develop end-to-end with AVRs - I can't see myself ever using a PIC again, though there are several other uPs that are quite cute and fun to play with from time to time...

The new "PA" series ATmegas run to a real 20MHz at low voltages and power - they are lovely.

Just my completely biassed 0.5euros worth.

Before its ignored, its worth pointing out that most uPs are not completely happy with the sort of fairly aggressive environments most TCs work in - far less forgiving than discrete logic.... prone to odd behaviour in noisy conditions... lock ups, odd behaviour etc.

Having said that, I'm using an ATmega as part of my new controller.... but there's a lot of screening going on and I've done it before...

[Edit: Double post]

Steve Conner

Thu Jul 30 2009, 04:29PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Carbon_Rod, could you clarify what on earth your previous post means? Are you saying the Microchip C18 compiler is bad?

(wouldn't surprise me if it was)

I swore off PICs altogether, but keep getting sucked back by that "Just one more wafer thin project" syndrome. I fully intend to get out though, before my brain suffers the same fate as Mr. Creosote at the hands of their stupid instruction set and wacky paging bits. And the AVRs seem as good an alternative as any.

This time it's because I'm designing a 4-channel high performance LED dimmer, and Microchip just happen to have ready-made code for DMX reception, and a PIC with four channels of 14-bit PWM plus another two of 10-bit PWM. (one for the LED array cooling fan, one spare)

I've got PICs to run around Tesla coils, but it wasn't easy.

thedatastream

Thu Jul 30 2009, 07:14PM

Registered Member #505 Joined: Sun Nov 19 2006, 06:42PM
Location: Yorkshire!
Posts: 329

Nicko wrote ...
...and now I keep coming back to AVRs with AVR Studio and the win-avr toolchain...

I hadn't realised that wimAVR had been integrated into AVRStudio - now I like AVRs even more!

Bjørn

Thu Jul 30 2009, 07:43PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

It rarely makes sense to step up from PIC to AVR when you can get ARM modules for $25 and ARM chips for $2.

It does not really matter what microcontroller you use as long as you are good at it and it is fun. If it is tiresome and frustrating then change until you find something you like. Often the software tools are more important than the chips, particularly for beginners.

It is also worth noting that as people get older it gets harder to get to grips with microcontrollers so it is a good idea to get one and learn while it is easy.

If anyone want to try ARM it is a good idea to drop into the chatroom with any questions.

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