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ragnar

Mon Apr 13 2009, 01:04PM

Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425

Dalus wrote ...

I'm curious to know what you would do when you see a small group of people fighting one person, would you guys jump in and help or just walk away?

There are more options than those two extremes, but this is why, in civilized countries, people have guns.

coillah

Mon Apr 13 2009, 04:03PM

Registered Member #1517 Joined: Wed Jun 04 2008, 06:55AM
Location: Chico CA
Posts: 304

If I see an unfair fight, I'll call the police, the response time downtown on the weekends is amazing, a cop is usually never more than a block away anywhere.

After I call the police I throw rocks :)

ragnar

Mon Apr 13 2009, 06:51PM

Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425

coillah wrote ...

If I see an unfair fight,

Bwaha, is there such thing as a fair fight?

wrote ...
I'll call the police, the response time downtown on the weekends is amazing, a cop is usually never more than a block away anywhere.

Again, in civilized countries

Cesiumsponge

Tue Apr 14 2009, 02:43AM

Registered Member #397 Joined: Wed Apr 19 2006, 12:56AM
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 125

Dalus wrote ...

I'm curious to know what you would do when you see a small group of people fighting one person, would you guys jump in and help or just walk away?

Unfortunately the proper response is to call the authorities and be a good witness. Unless you are 100% sure of what is going on, you shouldn't interfere if you came across the middle of something. Observe and report unless its blatantly obvious, like a madman shooting/stabbing up the joint, in which case most people will probably run away. If you interfere without knowing the entire situation, you can make things worse for the parties involved and yourself. There is nothing worse than assumptions in situations like this. It could be that the "victim" being beat up by the group was a robber attacking a man walking down the street and several bystanders from a gym saw it and decided to help the man being attacked. If you proceed to judo chop all the "attackers" to be the hero of the day, you're going to be charged with assault.

Just to demonstrate...take the following wargame scenario:

You're walking down the street. Say you're legally armed with martial arts, a pocket knife, a pistol, or some lethal method of self-defense, and your victory is guaranteed if you act. A half-naked woman with her clothes in shambles runs out of the alley screaming "rape! rape!". She stumbles on the sidewalk with her broken high heels and falls down in front of you.

You then see a fat, rough looking guy with a scruffy beard in a trenchcoat and sunglasses appear from the alley and he proceeds to tackle on top of her, all while she is screaming. He is oblivious to you since he is so engrossed in what he is doing.

What do you do? What should you do?

Or another scenario:

You walk into the convenience store while texting on your cellphone and look up once you're inside and realize that there is a man behind the counter with cash in his hand, both hands over his head, saying "please don't shoot me!" because there is another man in front of the counter holding a gun at him. Say you're legally armed with martial arts, a pocket knife, a pistol, or some lethal method of self-defense and your victory is guaranteed if you act.

What do you do? What should you do?

Arcstarter

Tue Apr 14 2009, 02:56AM

Registered Member #1225 Joined: Sat Jan 12 2008, 01:24AM
Location: Beaumont, Texas, USA
Posts: 2253

I'm curious to know what you would do when you see a small group of people fighting one person, would you guys jump in and help or just walk away?

I would jump in. It might not be right, but anywhere at any time i would jump in.

I am much like my big brother. I hate seeing living creatures being harmed. If i have to risk my own behind, so be it. I'm sure one day i will become more mature and not think the same way, but right now i know that is how i would act.

Like the day my little brothers friend came over because a group of bullies would not let him get to his house. I went with him and got them away (they where young, if it was a group of people my age i would have either went with something to scare them (not like a gun, more like get my mom to bring the truck over there, get next to the guys, put in neutral, and rev the mamoth up full throttle XD) and let the kid get to his house).

Hmm, a nice controversial discussion me thinks. Mainly because you see this stuff often in my neighborhood.

Dr. Drone

Tue Apr 14 2009, 04:34AM

Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
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Posts: 1673

Cesiumsponge

Fri Apr 17 2009, 01:08AM

Registered Member #397 Joined: Wed Apr 19 2006, 12:56AM
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 125

Well, I would think that people shooting movies would be fairly obvious as they'd have lots of trucks and supporting crews cordoning off the area and running around with gear, but I digress.

If you chose to use self-defense in the aid of others (which is legal in most every, if not all states) which resulted in the death of the aggressor in the first scenario, you just killed a vice cop on a prostitution bust. You get brought up on capital murder charges and you're now known as a cop killer in prison serving a 30+ year term.

If you chose to use self-defense in the aid of others which resulted in the death of the aggressor in the second scenario, you just killed the clerk. The robber ordered the clerk out from behind the counter so he could empty the till himself. The clerk, having been robbed before in such a business, walks around the counter to put a physical barrier between himself and the robber, then pulls his firearm to hold the robber until police arrive. You get brought up on manslaughter charges for the reckless and wanton disregard for human life resulting in death.

Chances are, you won't get those charges dropped even if you meant well.

In either case, it seemed like something obvious was going down but in actuality, it was practically opposite. You only get a split second to decide these things so be aware. In real life, unless you know with absolute certainty, don't get involved! You weren't there at the beginning of the conflict so it's impossible to know what transpired before. Be a good witness (even though eyewitness testimony has proven to be very unreliable, but that's a different matter). In real life, both can be ruinous even if you escape criminal charges. A civil case can be brought forth if there is a case to suggest a preponderance of evidence against the defendant. Unless its pretty obvious (ie a mass shooter going nuts), the way society is set up, you'd do best as a witness.

The late colonel Jeff Cooper still has techniques taught to military, law enforcement, and private defense training institutions. He was considered the father of the modern technique of pistol combat and one of the foremost expects. Before him, people still used single-handed dueling positions and stationary stances. He also created the "four golden rules" of firearms safety. The Army probably adopted a version of his color code. Cooper's original Color Code consists of four levels of mental condition:

Condition White is complete unpreparedness of your surroundings. Your mindset is one of running through endless fields of daisies. If you're confronted in condition white, the only hope you have is your attacker is a bumbling fool or dumb luck. A typical response is "oh my god!" or "what's happening?!". People in condition white are the best victims for criminals. They're the best victims for walking into phone posts on the sidewalk.

Condition Yellow: A relaxed alartness level where your mindset is acknowledging that you might run into trouble today when you're out and about and what you'd have to do about it. You actively scan for any signs of interest and oddities, especially if you're in a new environment. This is the condition which everyone SHOULD go about in their daily lives when you're outside your home and mingling with the world. You can keep up this mental alertness level indefinitely without strain.

Condition Orange: A heightened alert level from condition yellow when something attracts your attention and is out of place and a potential threat, like a drifter purposely making an approach towards you. Condition orange means if someone does something to you, you will have to respond in such a manner. This isn't something you'd practice for an extended period of time and it drops back down to yellow or blows into red.

Condition Red: Fight mode. It's on. You carry out the if/then scenario established in orange.

big5824

Fri Apr 17 2009, 08:37AM

Registered Member #1687 Joined: Tue Sept 09 2008, 08:47PM
Location: UK, Darlington
Posts: 240

Iv found that fighting back takes real balls....which most people including me dont have. A lot of people say they do, like i used to think id jump in and help, but in reality they dont.
Last november me and two friends were walking through town when two 19 year old chavs walked past us. As they were passing, one threw a punch at me and cut my chin, but i was just going to shake it off since they were big guys and we'r only 16....
But one of my friends decided to fight back for me (hes scottish, its second nature), and was actually pretty evenly matched against the two guys. It was goin pretty good and me and my other friend were just watching until he got his nose broken. Yet still neither of us could step in, which im very ashamed at and still regret....
The fight was over shortly after that, and we made our way to the hospital.

Basically what I was trying to get at is dont say you could throw yourself into a fight unless you have done it before.....in reality it is much much harder than you think, although just ignoring them would have been a much better outcome for the scottish guy.

Heres him once we got to hospital:

Dalus

Sat Apr 18 2009, 09:51AM

Registered Member #639 Joined: Wed Apr 11 2007, 09:09PM
Location: The Netherlands, Herkenbosch
Posts: 512

You do need to be very sure of what's going on. Only in an unarmed fight.

My response would be
1:Call the police.
2:Try to talk with the people (depending on how clear or unclear the situation is).
3:Try to get both sides apart.

It's illegal here to carry guns or knives, I know that this doesn't guarantee that somebody does pack a gun. But I would always use non lethal force when somebody turns to me and attacks me, I'll also never make the first move. And when somebody is armed I would run, it's way too easy to make a mistake that costs your life then . .

Cesiumsponge

Sat Apr 18 2009, 09:01PM

Registered Member #397 Joined: Wed Apr 19 2006, 12:56AM
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 125

It's impossible to guarantee with absolute certainty the force you apply won't be lethal even if your intentions was a non-lethal retaliation. What if they had a pre-existing medical condition and your punching them in the face caused a brain clot? If they had brittle bones and you break a major bone structure like the skull or femur? These are considered great bodily injury and indicative of a deadly force attack. What if injuries you caused at the scene caused medical complications down the road resulting in death, which otherwise wouldn't have happened?

There are plenty of situations and scenarios where physical, seemingly non-lethal actions have resulted in the death or maiming of someone. Even non-lethal weapons like tasers over the last decade have been reclassified as LESS-lethal. Best bet is to avoid at any cost and only fight if its a life-or-death situation. Usually a person that is aware of their surroundings and quick minded can avoid 99% of potential confrontations.

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