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Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
I must go to class and work so ill be brief. First yes, youll have enormous energy required to compress and capture the volume of air needed.
but second, youll have a differential equation I think? where engine RPM needs a given volume supply, but a change in engine RPM will need that volume, plus an increasing or decreasing factor too! so youll need a sensor feedback loop coupling a microcontroller to both the crankshaft, and the super/turbo/whatever.
also, yeah technically turbos use wasted power, but they also cuase back pressure the pistons have to overcome...so even the best turbo isn't free power added without consequence. and they lag more than supers...
Third, pistons are for pansies, real men use jets and rockets. theyre way more fun, and with a turbo from pick n pull your al mozst there with some welding around the edges.
Registered Member #1749
Joined: Fri Oct 10 2008, 02:04AM
Location: Claremont New Hampshire
Posts: 497
The simple idea behind it is to use an older car like a Saab with a Trionic ECU because that is by far the most adaptable system I have found people even take Trionic ECU's and use them in different cars because they make a great Stand alone Engine management system the can be controlled from a laptop on the go most parameters can be adjusted Injector time, Boost per gear, Spark advance/retard and it will even give you HP and Torque figures based off of some calculations. The idea is to use TPS,Wheel Speed, Gear selection and even a sensor for rapid release of the throttle too hard application to the brake so the Supercharger can use an electronic Brake by simply shorting the motor and stopping the compressor that plus a BOV will help prevent any damage.
All I can really say to this project is the Technology is not even close to what it should be for this kind of application the best motor I have researched for this is called a Switched Reluctance Motor and you can even buy one but it needs to be Two Pole so I have to build one.
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
I agree with others that just fitting a turbo would be your best bet.
However, after reading about 'series wound' motors in another thread, I think this may be the best way to go. Apparently there is no limit on top speed.
Suppose you have the 'charger' plumbed in, but not powered, the rotor will still spin, due to airflow from 'normal aspiration', but performance will be worse, due to the spinning rotor in the inlet manifold. Now, suppose you connect the motor, the motor will cause the rotor to pump more air than was previously flowing. Pressure will be increased, and as long as the power of the motor overcomes bearing friction, etc. pressure will be boosted, but you'd need a big motor to increase pressure by much.
EDIT:
Chris Cristini wrote ...
The simple idea behind it is to use an older car like a Saab with a Trionic ECU because that is by far the most adaptable system
I drive a 2000 Saab 95 with the 'EcoPower' turbo system, and it's pretty much impossible to fault it. I stopped driving Jags because I decided I needed an estate/station wagon (must be getting old), but the Saab is certainly as drivable as Jags are, with much better fuel economy (my old V12 did 12 miles to the (UK) gallon, and the 3.2 XJ's rarely do more than 20, the Saab does 30-35, and has the power to overtake just about anything. I'm well impressed with it.)
I understand that the Saab system is relatively low boost (I think only ~4-5 PSI, from memory), and doesn't really come into play until you 'put your foot down', which, I think, is the reason for what I consider to be a very economical system considering the power you have 'on tap'.
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
is it possible to make a totally unique and possibly better system using modfied fuel injectors, to inject just air? an air injection system driven by a tiny piston compressor wouldnt get around the energy needed, but fan discs are terrible at compression with high volume demand, so i think you might make a gain there?
or would the air would just shoot out through the intake? the fan doesnt just compress the air it also acts as a valve to block air in...
Registered Member #1749
Joined: Fri Oct 10 2008, 02:04AM
Location: Claremont New Hampshire
Posts: 497
I agree with others that just fitting a turbo would be your best bet.
However, after reading about 'series wound' motors in another thread, I think this may be the best way to go. Apparently there is no limit on top speed.
Series Wound do you mean like a universal motor like a vacuum motor?
Patrick wrote ...
is it possible to make a totally unique and possibly better system using modfied fuel injectors, to inject just air? an air injection system driven by a tiny piston compressor wouldnt get around the energy needed, but fan discs are terrible at compression with high volume demand, so i think you might make a gain there?
or would the air would just shoot out through the intake? the fan doesnt just compress the air it also acts as a valve to block air in...
You are correct the air from an injector system would just flow out of the air filter I could see using a fuel injected engine for the throttle body. If you could over come intake CFM with a high enough volume of high pressure air from an on board tank you could use a check valve just after the filter so when you introduce air pressure the back flow would cause the flap to seal all air in then when the high pressure air stops flowing the engine vacuum will suck the check valve open again so there would be no restriction that is a good idea you would have to use large solenoid valves for high air flow but if you had a 5 gallon air tank it would all empty out in less than a minute but would give you boost. Very clever.
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Chris Cristini wrote ...
Series Wound do you mean like a universal motor like a vacuum motor?
I assumed it meant that the armature and stator were 'in series'. It seems that some 'more knowledgable' types than me agreed that they have no 'top speed', and that they just keep accelerating, according to the load. It seems to me that this is just what's required in this application.
Hopefully someone 'more knowledgable' will comment.
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
well, with my other idea, your kinda stuck approximating a reed valve or spring valve like pulse jet inhaling system, which are prone to ware out. and not be better than what they would replace.
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Chris Cristini wrote ...
You are correct the air from an injector system would just flow out of the air filter I could see using a fuel injected engine for the throttle body. If you could over come intake CFM with a high enough volume of high pressure air from an on board tank you could use a check valve just after the filter so when you introduce air pressure the back flow would cause the flap to seal all air in then when the high pressure air stops flowing the engine vacuum will suck the check valve open again so there would be no restriction that is a good idea you would have to use large solenoid valves for high air flow but if you had a 5 gallon air tank it would all empty out in less than a minute but would give you boost. Very clever.
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