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Tesla's Wireless System

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Proud Mary

Mon Feb 23 2009, 05:48PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Steve McConner wrote ...

I don't really understand what distinction Harry is trying to make here. Resonances have Q, and resonant cavities have resonances.

I think I was just suffering from confusion!

Coronafix

Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:15PM

Registered Member #160 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938

Well the frequencies that Tesla worked in are in the ELF region which is of course off limits to anyone except the military. So any hope of reproducing his experiments even if you had 75kW + is dashed right there.

Chris Russell

Tue Feb 24 2009, 02:12AM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

Coronafix wrote ...

Well the frequencies that Tesla worked in are in the ELF region which is of course off limits to anyone except the military. So any hope of reproducing his experiments even if you had 75kW + is dashed right there.

On the contrary, anything below 9kHz is not even considered radio by the FCC, and is unregulated. In many other regions of the world, everything below 10kHz is free. Good luck radiating anything more than a few nanowatts down there, though. The reason the military is the only entity using it is because efficient antennas in this band are measured in the tens of miles long.

HV Enthusiast

Tue Feb 24 2009, 04:01PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
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Posts: 3068

Like Chris said. Anyone can work in the ELF region. However, be prepared to using giant megawatt transmitters and antennas many miles long!

Proud Mary

Wed Feb 25 2009, 03:24AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Dr. GigaVolt wrote ...

Like Chris said. Anyone can work in the ELF region. However, be prepared to using giant megawatt transmitters and antennas many miles long!

There are radio amateurs experimenting with transmitters below 9kHz. The amateur record so far is a distance of 10km on 6kHz @ 1kW by G0AKN using ground electrodes.

Next best is 4.5km on 8.969kHz @ only 20W by DF6NM using a kite antenna.

Some of these experimenters are using ordinary audio amplifiers to drive their antennae.

For more info on amateurs below 9kHz see:

Exciting stuff if you like doing something different where few have dared to tread!

Dr. Slack

Wed Feb 25 2009, 04:01PM

Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659

I make the wavelength of a 6kHz signal to be 50km. That puts the distance of 10k well and truly in the near field, and depending on how the ground electrodes were deployed, did any go through the aether?

BTW, I liked the Nicholson paper, very clear, thoroughly recommended.

Proud Mary

Wed Feb 25 2009, 05:23PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Dr. Slack wrote ...

I make the wavelength of a 6kHz signal to be 50km. That puts the distance of 10k well and truly in the near field, and depending on how the ground electrodes were deployed, did any go through the aether?

You'd have to take that up with the ELF amateur group, on the link I gave above, Herr Doktor. But I do know that they can and do communicate over distances of a few kilometres with radiated power estimated at less than 1uW from kite antennae for example! Exciting stuff and great fun too, I bet!

Perhaps we should start a new thread called ELF chat, as I fear I've wandered a long way from the original topic.

Gary Peterson

Wed Feb 25 2009, 06:15PM

Registered Member #1983 Joined: Wed Feb 18 2009, 03:49PM
Location: Breckenridge, Colorado
Posts: 9

Steve McConner wrote:
> Yeah, let's see these "number of individuals".

Here is a partial list of individuals who have experimented with the Tesla wireless system transmission and observed that some mechanism or agent other than ordinary radio waves appears to be involved in the long-distance transfer of electrical energy from the Tesla coil transmitter to the Tesla coil receiver. First on my list is Tesla himself. He is followed by Fred Jost (ca. 1975), Eric Dollard (ca. 1985), myself (1990; power input: 20 watts, wavelength: 2775.8 meters, range: 1,000 meters, see http://www.teslaradio.com/pages/sstc-a.htm for some scant documentation), Richard Quick (1994, http://www.pupman.com/listarchives/1994/november/msg00052.html), D.C. Cox (wavelength: 1763.5 meters, range: 805 meters), and Konstantine Meyl (2003). There are other, some more and some less, significant researchers in the field who's work I am not or do not feel at liberty to write about.

> The modern version of Tesla's system, which does actually work, is a microwave beam directed at a rectifying antenna (rectenna). NASA have a UAV powered this way, and there were proposals to beam down power from orbiting solar power stations.

These are not true examples of the Tesla wireless system as described in SYSTEM OF TRANSMISSION OF ELECTRICAL ENERGY, Sept. 2, 1897, U.S. Patent No. 645,576, Mar. 20, 1900 [ http://www.tfcbooks.com/patents/0645576.htm ] and elsewhere.

> More generally, cell phones and communications satellites have delivered all the promises that Tesla made for his World Wireless System, and more. . . .

I beg to differ. Tesla identified a number of world-system capabilities that will be difficult to acheive by means of present-day cellular telephone systems or satellites orbiting in space. Three come readily to mind: a ground-based system for global geophysical exploration [Waite], Wireless transmission of electrical energy for the propulsion of aircraft and ocean-going vessels and other industrial purposes, and interplanetary telecommunications providing a stable, high-capacity interplanetary network backbone, supporting high-speed Internet protocols.

> The World System is already here, it just didn't get implemented in quite the way Tesla predicted. Or maybe it did, given that all radio equipment relies on tuned circuits and resonance. . . . I like to think that the modern wired world is a result of later generations of experimenters trying to follow up on Tesla's World System vision. They just couldn't get the power transmission bit to work well.

I agree that our present day systems for wireless telecommunications wouldn't exist were it not for the pioneering work of Nikola Tesla. We haven't gotten the true wireless and power transmission components up and running yet because no open public efforts have been made to implement even the basic world-wireless system.

> As for the 75,000 watt "core loss", I tend to go with Paul Nicholson when he identifies the losses with the Q factor of the Schumann resonances. By this model, it won't suddenly start working like a champ once a certain loss is overcome: the loss will always be a constant percentage of the input power. Probably about 99%...

I totally agree with Paul in his assertion that the hypothesized Schumann Cavity Resonance Method of wireless transmission is fatally flawed. This is not to say that the earth cannot be electrically resonated in the manner described by Tesla. Paul is simply dispelling the myth that Tesla's 'earth resonance' scheme involves the excitation of a Schuman cavity resonance mode. See NIKOLA TESLA ON WIRELESS ENERGY TRANSMISSION, The Schumann Cavity Resonance Hypothesis, located at http://www.teslaradio.com/pages/tesla.htm#schumann for a Paul Nicholson approved commentary by Henry Bradford on the infeasibility of the hypothesized Schumann Cavity Resonance Method of wireless transmission.

Dr. Slack

Thu Feb 26 2009, 02:54PM

Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659

Speaking as one who is persuaded of the correctness of Maxwell's equations by the overwhelming evidence of repeated experiemtns, I think I can divine a reason that non-Hertzian waves are embraced by amateurs and discreditted scientists.

If I did an experiment with results that were inconsistent with Maxwell's equations, I would look hard to find out where I had gone wrong, improve my setup, understand the equations and their relevance to what I was _actually_ doing. I expect that most of the people on this forum, and all reputable scientists, would do the same.

Results that are incosnsitent with Maxwells' equations appear to be the very things that the non-Hertzian transmission lobby are looking for. Or am I mistaken?

Just a thought.

Proud Mary

Thu Feb 26 2009, 03:12PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Without the Constants, everything we think we know would collapse into a heap of nonsense!

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