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Registered Member #1232
Joined: Wed Jan 16 2008, 10:53PM
Location: Doon tha Toon!
Posts: 881
> In order for a Tesla world wireless system to achieve even 1% efficiency it first has to overcome what might be called the "core loss," which, according to Tesla is the 75,000 watts that is needed to resonate the earth.
I suspect that most HV experimenters on here don't have the power service or the funds to work on a project requiring 75kW of input for 750W of useable output power. So this is probably not the best forum for such a discussion.
Registered Member #160
Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 02:07AM
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 938
Gary Peterson wrote ...
A number of individuals and groups have demonstrated that electrical energy can be transferred from a Tesla coil transmitter to a Tesla coil receiver over distances exceeding a few wavelengths, and this without ordinary radio waves being significantly involved.
Can you point the way to these experiments, I would be interested to see them. I don't see why this discussion has to be political, having to choose a side in what people believe or disbelieve. This is science people! Follow the experimental evidence. If Gary has something to share, I don't see why he should be shot down. My hero was Nikola Tesla, but I don't get all offended when people call him a nut case. In my opinion I don't think that Tesla ever meant longitudinal waves through the air but instead waves through the ground. On a side note, Gary Leyh said that he was surprised at how far his wireless robot could go.
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Yeah, let's see these "number of individuals".
The modern version of Tesla's system, which does actually work, is a microwave beam directed at a rectifying antenna (rectenna). NASA have a UAV powered this way, and there were proposals to beam down power from orbiting solar power stations.
More generally, cell phones and communications satellites have delivered all the promises that Tesla made for his World Wireless System, and more. The World System is already here, it just didn't get implemented in quite the way Tesla predicted.
Or maybe it did, given that all radio equipment relies on tuned circuits and resonance... I like to think that the modern wired world is a result of later generations of experimenters trying to follow up on Tesla's World System vision. They just couldn't get the power transmission bit to work well.
As for the 75,000 watt "core loss", I tend to go with Paul Nicholson when he identifies the losses with the Q factor of the Schumann resonances. By this model, it won't suddenly start working like a champ once a certain loss is overcome: the loss will always be a constant percentage of the input power. Probably about 99%...
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
I suppose by "Q factor of the Schumann Resonances" that Steve must have intended the Q of the atmospheric waveguide, rather than the resonances themselves.
... not Russel! Registered Member #1
Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052
Coronafix wrote ...
In my opinion I don't think that Tesla ever meant longitudinal waves through the air but instead waves through the ground.
Steve's most excellent document above addresses that concept quite nicely. Give it a read if you haven't yet. It talks about the relationship between ground waves and radio waves, and addresses longitudinal waves as well.
Harry wrote ...
Perhaps someone with the know-how could make a mathematical model of Tesla's concept, and see how it runs.
But that's been the problem all along, hasn't it? Tesla claims that Maxwell's equations don't apply for some reason, so we're conveniently left without the ability to construct a mathematical model. It's easy enough to plug a pair of Tesla coils into NEC4 or similar, and accurately model the poor performance that Tesla's system exhibits, but advocates of the system will simply claim that the math is wrong.
Steve McConner wrote ...
As for the 75,000 watt "core loss", I tend to go with Paul Nicholson when he identifies the losses with the Q factor of the Schumann resonances. By this model, it won't suddenly start working like a champ once a certain loss is overcome: the loss will always be a constant percentage of the input power. Probably about 99%...
Probably much worse. The Schumann resonances are not particularly difficult to detect with enough patience. Simply filling a large TC secondary with some insulated iron rods or bars would likely be enough when connected to a good sound card. You can then see the quite wide, low-Q smear that makes up the first Schumann resonance, and some of its harmonics. Nicholson wasn't joking when he described the Q as hopelessly low.
Gary Peterson wrote ...
In closing, allow me to say that my purpose in starting this thread is not to reopen the discussions of whether the system works, but encourage HV experimenters in ongoing investigations of it.
In closing, I will invite you to re-read the rules regarding pseudoscience on this site. 4hv.org isn't going to play host to this sort of nonsense, wherein some shadowy figures claim success in contravening the laws of physics as we understand them, with no evidence or mathematics to back it up. This scenario has repeated itself many times, and it never ends well.
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Chris Russell wrote ... The Schumann resonances are not particularly difficult to detect with enough patience. Simply filling a large TC secondary with some insulated iron rods or bars would likely be enough when connected to a good sound card.
Indeed, Hans Michlmayr over at the excellent Waves Below 22kHz site has built such an apparatus:
Registered Member #30
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
I have to be nice about the CFA, I work with one of the guys who invented it I asked him to build me a 3.5MHz one for the attic, and he's been strangely quiet ever since.
I don't really understand what distinction Harry is trying to make here. Resonances have Q, and resonant cavities have resonances.
One cavity can have several resonant modes each with its own frequency and Q factor.
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Tesla's Wireless System
