Tesla's Wireless System / Tesla Coils / Forums

Forums

4hv.org :: Forums :: Tesla Coils

« Previous topic | Next topic »

Tesla's Wireless System

1 2 3 4 next

Move Thread

LAN_403

Gary Peterson

Fri Feb 20 2009, 01:42AM

Registered Member #1983 Joined: Wed Feb 18 2009, 03:49PM
Location: Breckenridge, Colorado
Posts: 9

I'm new to this forum. Would someone please point me to discussions of Tesla's wireless system in the 4HV archives?

aonomus

Fri Feb 20 2009, 02:13AM

Registered Member #1497 Joined: Thu May 22 2008, 05:24AM
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 801

And the search button in the top right hand corner of the page.

Please use these functions and read the site rules before asking us to do your homework.

Gary Peterson

Sat Feb 21 2009, 06:09PM

Registered Member #1983 Joined: Wed Feb 18 2009, 03:49PM
Location: Breckenridge, Colorado
Posts: 9

Thanks for the instructions.

Gary Peterson

Sun Feb 22 2009, 02:31AM

Registered Member #1983 Joined: Wed Feb 18 2009, 03:49PM
Location: Breckenridge, Colorado
Posts: 9

Okay, I did my homework. While I found a number of interesting threads related to wireless transmission using Tesla coils, they all peter out before getting to the meat of the topic. I can see that a number of posters have actually built and operated the basic apparatus, but no one has provided any photographs nor have any substantial reports of observations been made. I have noticed expressions that while acknowledging a displacement current exists between the elevated terminal of the grounded Tesla coil transmitter and the elevated terminal of the grounded Tesla coil receiver, assert a cancellation effect with the associated ground currents as the transmitter and receiver are separated, which limits the range of a Tesla wireless system.

This contradicts the experience of those who have built demonstration Tesla wireless systems and have characterized its performance in both the near and far field.

At one point Steve McConner wrote, "I know this is just a new spin by some university PR department on Tesla's original ideas. But maybe the time really is right for "Witricity" now... Anyway, it looks like something that many board members here could lashup in an afternoon and I encourage you all to try it. Replicating the experiment could get 4hv some good publicity if nothing else."

It occurs to me that the exact same encouragement could be given for the small-scale replication of the Tesla wireless system. . . .

Dennis Rogers

Sun Feb 22 2009, 03:40PM

Registered Member #1837 Joined: Tue Dec 02 2008, 02:20PM
Location: NYC
Posts: 65

There isn't really a small scale when you plan on using the ionosphere as a conductor.

Gary Peterson

Sun Feb 22 2009, 05:28PM

Registered Member #1983 Joined: Wed Feb 18 2009, 03:49PM
Location: Breckenridge, Colorado
Posts: 9

Actually, using the ionosphere as an electrical conductor is not part of the plan.

I have continued my research of previous discussions of Tesla's wireless system, and have come up with a few more interesting threads. While I have found some good photos and some further discussion they all leave off with unanswered questions and open-ended speculation. I've posted the preliminary results of my search at http://www.teslaradio.com/pages/4HV_wireless_threads.htm.

Steve Conner

Sun Feb 22 2009, 05:57PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Tesla's wireless system doesn't work, and that's why there's not more discussion of it.

Well, maybe that's unfair. It works, but only in the near field, and hence the efficiency falls off as the fourth power of distance. You can light bulbs and things over a short range, but for transmitting commercially useful amounts of power over commercially useful distances, it's not efficient enough to compete with the usual copper wires.

The best analysis I ever saw of why it doesn't work is Paul Nicholson's paper on non-Hertzian waves:

It argues that Tesla's system had no magical properties that made it efficient, but was subject to the same limitations as regular radio transmissions, and indeed my Witricity experiment, which also only worked in the near field. Anyone who says that a Tesla wireless system performs efficiently in the far field is wrong.

Proud Mary

Sun Feb 22 2009, 06:19PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Thanks for clearing that up, Steve. I always thought it had an alchemical smell to it.

Gary Peterson

Sun Feb 22 2009, 08:27PM

Registered Member #1983 Joined: Wed Feb 18 2009, 03:49PM
Location: Breckenridge, Colorado
Posts: 9

Tesla's wireless system . . . works, but only in the near field

A number of individuals and groups have demonstrated that electrical energy can be transferred from a Tesla coil transmitter to a Tesla coil receiver over distances exceeding a few wavelengths, and this without ordinary radio waves being significantly involved.

You can light bulbs and things over a short range, but for transmitting commercially useful amounts of power over commercially useful distances, it's not efficient enough to compete with the usual copper wires.

Efficiency is not the issue here. It does matter that the Tesla wireless system has been shown to work over great distances, the signal being propagated by some means other than ordinary radio waves.

The best analysis I ever saw of why it doesn't work is Paul Nicholson's paper on non-Hertzian waves.

I helped Paul to clean up that paper when he first wrote it. I don't share your opinion of his analysis. From what I can tell, Paul still doesn't understand what Tesla was actually doing.

Anyone who says that a Tesla wireless system performs efficiently in the far field is wrong.

In order for a Tesla world wireless system to achieve even 1% efficiency it first has to overcome what might be called the "core loss," which, according to Tesla is the 75,000 watts that is needed to resonate the earth.

In closing, allow me to say that my purpose in starting this thread is not to reopen the discussions of whether the system works, but encourage HV experimenters in ongoing investigations of it.

Finn Hammer

Mon Feb 23 2009, 07:30AM

Registered Member #205 Joined: Sat Feb 18 2006, 11:59AM
Location: SkÃ¸rping, Denmark
Posts: 741

Gary,

I think you should understand, that if you want to win followers for your cause, there are better strategies than the one you deploy.

For example, Paul Nicholson is held in high esteem by many of us for his unique combination of mathematical insight and ability to explain it in accessible terms. And one who has produced very extensive documentation of his findings. Writing him off as one who *still doesn't get it* will raise a flag of warning in many minds here.
In short, a remark like that is the same as saying: "choose your side, who do you believe the most". And in that self imposed situation, what do you have to offer?

You looking for followers? Don't start by denouncing our heroes!

The best you can do is to openly publish your results, and see if anybody cares. And if there is any meat on the bone you throw, rest assured it will get picked up.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

1 2 3 4 next

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob