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Registered Member #135
Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735
What is wrong is you're treating a Pole Pig like its a Vacuum cleaner, and experienced people are trying to help you clean up your lack of some basic high voltage safety. I personally think you need to be using a much better cord, someone else is suggesting you use a dead man switch so you might not get killed, I think you should stop doing this alone just in case you stop your heart, I think you ought to have an inline breaker with a similar cable I am going to post a picture of here, and If I were convinced that you were NOT going to KILL yourself then I would agree that you had enough valuable experience. Since I am still writing about my concerns for YOUR LIFE, I cannot agree that you have valuable experience, that's all. I just don't want to find out later that you got hurt or killed trying to show off.
Your videos really prove your lack of experience, and hopefully someday you can reflect on that and consider what danger you were in while learning about high voltage.
Here's the cord I use for my PT and I suggest you use something similar WITH an inline breaker in the future.
Registered Member #152
Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384
J. Aaron Holmes wrote ...
Hi Arcstarter, et al:
Arcstarter wrote ...
I use a large chicken stick which i make sure is not wet before i use it. Watch this probably experienced guy draw arcs:
Hmmm... well! This is actually a good example, but not perhaps for the reason you intended; I think Jan Martis is being a bit of a "HV cowboy" here by using a wooden chicken stick in his MOT videos,
That video is not mine, it was just uploaded by me. Re wooden sticks- yes I used them, now I have a long plastic pipe, before I always checked that the wood is non-conductive by applying high voltages across it and making sure it was dry (dry wood is good insulator). I also used the wooden stick for a flyback with ~30kv on it (yes this can be considered "risky" but (most) flybacks are not lethal) and it was absolutely fine.
Registered Member #1628
Joined: Wed Aug 06 2008, 08:48PM
Location: Huntsville, AL USA
Posts: 95
Hazmatt_(The Underdog) wrote ...
Okay, WHY you seem Inexperienced to ME!
1. You are using extension cords to power your pig. 2. YOU ARE USING EXTENSION CORDS TO POWER YOUR PIG
3. Have I made the point yet? You don't use an extension to do these kinds of things. You go to Home Depot and buy 30 feet of 4 AWG 3 conductor, a dryer socket plug, and real cable connections for the low side. I know its expensive, but that's what you do.
4. Did I mention the power cord? 5. REAL CABLE Connections, not a piece of ROMEX stuck into an extension cord.
6. A SECOND PERSON CPR TRAINED
7. A tripod would be good, I have to agree with that... just in case somehow one of the METAL legs comes in contact with high current or high voltage....because your ballast is on the ground.
8. Mounting High voltage components insted of lying them on cardboard. These kinds of things REQUIRE prep-work, not a fast lash up. Quick and dirty = beef jerky!... remember that little rhyme! Yea I just made it up... but its true.
9. Yea I think you can be safe with a pig, but I agree with some of the guys here that have kids, you shouldn't be playing with this kind of HV at 15.. or 19... and no amount of playing with flybacks or MOT's prepares anyone with enough experience for piggies. They have enough current that they can cause an arc-flash and do serious damage, just put in arc flash to youtube and you'll see that real fast.
10. Did I mention the power cord?
11. I don't draw arcs from my PT, I rarely turn it on because its an itty bitty pig. They require thoughtful handling, careful setup, and prep-work.
I'd say hold on to it, you'll be more ready in 10 years time. Right now I am not convinced you really care about safety because you didn't spend the time and money to acquire insulating materials, suitable cable, a second observer with CPR training or at least a cell phone, etc.
Your dad not considering this dangerous really concerns me, its very dangerous.
And don't think this is the first time I've written stuff like this either, I have pleaded with other kids not to do these things because the situation you're in and they were in doesn't allow you to take a step back out of your situation and look at everything. I dunno if swanny is still alive... or if that's the correct member at the moment, but I have begged several kids just like you here NOT to play with these things, its just not worth the risk right now. You have a long future to look forward to.
What is wrong with extension cords?! That does not make me unsafe... It would actually be VERY unsafe to use a single cord because i am not near the outlet, and i would have to turn it on and then walk to the pig, so that is the only way. The wires are really not that thin, i mean the will get warm over a long run but NOWHERE near melting.
Then the pig is no more powerful than an mot... After all i am using a mot to ballast. I drew quite alot longer arcs with mots than i do with my pig. I tripped my breakers after like 3 arcs with 2 mots.
I use a large chicken stick which i make sure is not wet before i use it. Watch this probably experienced guy draw arcs:
I tugged on my wire on everything before i used it. Nothing was even near loose.
So i am not extremely safe but i do understand how high voltage could travel. I know i sound like a ________(you fill in the blank) But i just really think i will be ok. I am not trying to start any fights or an argument, i just don't want to be portrayed as someone inexperienced.
I totally agree with Hazmatt. Sorry Arcstarter but from what I've seen and heard on this thread I think you should store the pig away or get rid of it ASAP. You haphhazardly use hv from it with very primitive unreliable methods that are extremely unsafe no matter how much you argue the point. And sorry I have 6 kids from 16 down to 5 months old and NONE of them are allowed to play with the pig. I haven't fired mine yet because I'm collecting equipment necessary to safely operate it. 200a contactor, deadman's switch, key wired in before those. An iron ballast with a core that has around 30 inches area on the middle I section and proper LARGE gauge wires for the low side. I also have a dual 1256d stack for ramping up the voltage good to around 60 amps. Even powering it on a 15-20 amp breaker is not a good idea. I'm wiring in a dedicated 240v 60a circuit just for it. I don't think your to the age yet that your mentally compenent of being responsible and experienced enough to fully understand and respect that kind of power you r using or you wouldn't argue your argue with Hazmatt. Dr. Kilovolt I think you are WRONG as well and NO Hazmatt did not exxagerate at all and has very VALID points. The kid is just down right unsafe and unexperienced. Just because he drew some arcs from a mot doesn't mean he is experienced in hv.
I'm not trying to bash anyone but if I were you Arcstarter I would pack it away for a long time or get rid of it. Soon.
It just takes 1 time to make a mistake. 1 . And then you dead. Gone forever. I would hate to see you just stop posting 1 day. I sincerely care about your safety and to tell you the truth with what I saw, it was an accident waiting to happen. And if you ignore this altogether just know this, your in my prayers. Garry Neeley
Registered Member #15
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068
wrote ...
I don't know why i seem so inexperienced to you guys now. I really am not.
Actually, you are. No offensive, but you're only 15 years old. How much experience can you expect to have using utility power transformers and high voltage Again no offense, but this type of experience takes years and years to obtain. I work with people, who are through college, and have been working in the industry for years, who i still consider inexperienced. Heck, i consider myself inexperienced when it comes to pole pigs because i don't have the years of experience working with them, especially since i'm more a solid state experimenter now. And the fact you seem to feel comfortable makes it even worst. Pole transformers scare the hell out of me - if i don't have to use them, i don't. You seem to be the opposite, wanting to play with them as much as possible. At least thats how i perceive it.
wrote ...
The only thing that could hurt me on the pig is the primary input and the high voltage output.
Again, its a statement like this that shows inexperience as well as your general understanding of the dangers involved.
There are many things which can hurt you on a pole pig.
1. They are extremely heavy - yours was 629 pounds i think you said - now thats REAL heavy. You have great potential to hurt yourself here.
2. The primary inputs are lethal, especially if you're running 240VAC. Also, since there is no current limiting on a pole transformer, you can end up sucking loads of current to the point where your primary wires (extension cords you're using???) will heat up and catch fire instantly. Or worse yet, the wires inside your house itself.
3. Secondary output? ABSOLUTELY LETHAL. One touch is all you get. If you're lucky, the arc will explode your arms first and save your life. You don't get a second chance.
4. Fire hazard - Very high potential for fire hazard - heatings wires, arcs, etc....
5. Explosion hazard - These transformer do have the potential to explode. And depending on what type of oil is in there, the oil can be very flammable.
Registered Member #690
Joined: Tue May 08 2007, 03:47AM
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 616
I've been a little hesitant to post on this thread, but I just want to say I think Arcstarter is capable of handling a pole pig without getting killed. That's not to say I think he's invincible, or that there isn't a huge amount of danger.
And Arcstarter, I think the best way to stop having your safety practices questioned would be to stop just drawing arcs...when people see a super-hot HV arc and a hand in the same frame, there will always be safety issues brought up. You being 15 just exacerbates this effect (the bare feet, gator clips, etc. doesn't help tho).
If you leave simple arc-drawing to the n00bs and put the time and energy into building a monster TC, I guarantee you will have to do less defending of your safety practices. A nice enclosure and proper power source+cables for the pig would also help.
Registered Member #477
Joined: Tue Jun 20 2006, 11:51PM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 546
Dr. Kilovolt wrote ...
That video is not mine, it was just uploaded by me. Re wooden sticks- yes I used them, now I have a long plastic pipe, before I always checked that the wood is non-conductive by applying high voltages across it and making sure it was dry (dry wood is good insulator). I also used the wooden stick for a flyback with ~30kv on it (yes this can be considered "risky" but (most) flybacks are not lethal) and it was absolutely fine.
D'oh! Sorry, I should have been more clear: I was looking at the "frying a circuit board" video when I made that comment. Anyway, you're right; wood by itself is not inherently bad. It's the almost inevitable moisture that's bad. It just seems like one of those risks nobody has to take. That's all I was getting at.
Registered Member #1225
Joined: Sat Jan 12 2008, 01:24AM
Location: Beaumont, Texas, USA
Posts: 2253
Dr. Kilovolt wrote ...
J. Aaron Holmes wrote ...
Hi Arcstarter, et al:
Arcstarter wrote ...
I use a large chicken stick which i make sure is not wet before i use it. Watch this probably experienced guy draw arcs:
Hmmm... well! This is actually a good example, but not perhaps for the reason you intended; I think Jan Martis is being a bit of a "HV cowboy" here by using a wooden chicken stick in his MOT videos,
That video is not mine, it was just uploaded by me. Re wooden sticks- yes I used them, now I have a long plastic pipe, before I always checked that the wood is non-conductive by applying high voltages across it and making sure it was dry (dry wood is good insulator). I also used the wooden stick for a flyback with ~30kv on it (yes this can be considered "risky" but (most) flybacks are not lethal) and it was absolutely fine.
Yea, i know :P. If it was you i would not have uploaded it. I am sorry that i did not say it was not you but i figured people would just read it on youtube. I don't use chicken sticks for flybacks:P
You are really going to use my age against me? That is just GREAT! Just because i am young does NOT mean that i am stupid. And i am NOT. I mean look at teslacoolguy. He is my age (actually a few days younger) and look how smart he is.
I am just going to stop with the pole pig arcs....
But i will be fine. I am not gonna shock myself unless something weird happens like the high voltage wire comes to life and hits me.
Registered Member #290
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673
We love you man, just be safe, remember I am an old FART and still learning.
Sure wish I was 15 again with all the knowledge I have learn the hard way in 53 years.
Here are a few pics of how to have a safer pig setup. One Main line will go into 50 AMP 240 variac and the other will go into a variable reactor with Iron core that can pull the pig down to 100ma. There is a volt meter on the Pig mains input and on the output . This way I can just look at meter to ensure both are @ 0 volts.
Safe pig handler lives longer, damn things kill , Dr. Spark
Registered Member #290
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673
EDIT: OMG double posted, going to get my butt smacked big time…hit return key more than once, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm older than I thought….
We love you man, just be safe, remember I am an old FART and still learning.
Sure wish I was 15 again with all the knowledge I have learn the hard way in 53 years.
Here are a few pics of how to have a safer pig setup. One Main line will go into 50 AMP 240 variac and the other will go into a variable reactor with Iron core that can pull the pig down to 100ma. There is a volt meter on the Pig mains input and on the output . This way I can just look at meter to ensure both are @ 0 volts.
Safe pig handler lives longer, damn things kill , Dr. Spark
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Getting an old pole pig!!
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