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Registered Member #1107
Joined: Thu Nov 08 2007, 10:09PM
Location:
Posts: 792
Dr. Spark is totally correct. 4HV is a a great community and it's members are just trying their hardest to help each other out. We are not trying to be mean but as many other said, you have one chance with a pig. I hope you realize everything and DONT GET RID OF IT because you will regret it. Even if you do decide to sell it, perhaps you can post something in the Sale and Trade section and maybe a good member may want to buy it. All it will cost you is about 5min of your time.
Registered Member #15
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068
wrote ...
Well, my dad doesn't really like it being here, but he will allow me to keep it, but what is the point of keeping it if i cannot share my success with you guys without looking like a dumbass? Getting this thing here was i believe the hardest thing i have ever had to do, and now i am just getting rid of it. Never thought i would even consider it but i can never power it up to 50kva. I MAY not get rid of it, but i am about to go try..
Not sure what your father's intentions are are (safety, or just doesn't want it period), but just to let you know, none of my own kids are going to be playing with pole pigs while they live in my house. If your father's concerns are safety (as opposed to be just not wanting it altogether), then i totally agree with him. Pole pigs are magnitudes more dangerous than any other aspect of Tesla coiling. They're big, they contain oil, they aren't current limited, and you only get one shock - then your dead.
Your only 15 years old now, and as Dr. Spark said, you have your whole life to play with pole transformers. Just wait a few years. Put the thing in storage and hide it away until then.
Personally, i cringe everytime someone inexperienced starts playing with pole transformers.
Registered Member #1535
Joined: Wed Jun 11 2008, 11:37PM
Location: Northeastern Pennsylvania - USA
Posts: 117
To much to respond to, so I'll stick to the main subject.
Keep it!!! Put it in a shed. Store it somewhere else if ever need be!!!
It took me 2 years to nab my 14.4 10kva. Once I had it, it took me a few more months to obtain a suitable ballast. I'm using an arc welder with a movable shunt. It took me another month to build the courage to assemble it. Once assembled it took 10 minutes of nervous tremble to turn it on. I only have a 30a breaker, so I limited it to 30a peak. Incredible Jacob's Ladder was my method of load testing this thing... I should open a youtube account and post some videos...
I now want to build a nice Tesla coil using it. There is no way I can get away with 10ft arcs here in my suburb. Three feet is probably the loudest my neighbors will tolerate. ...sigh...
Point is, my pig is stashed away now, probably for a very long time. SOMEDAY when I can exploit it, and I do, I'll be so happy I held on to it...
Lastly, I'm so paranoid, I designed a wireless contactor to power it up. No hand contact whatsoever.
Registered Member #1225
Joined: Sat Jan 12 2008, 01:24AM
Location: Beaumont, Texas, USA
Posts: 2253
Wait wait wait... I was not talking about you guys "beating on me". I was just saying that that is why i am going to get rid of my pig. I still may not but i am pretty sure i will. I would like to get a potential transformer. Yes, i know that they are no safer, but they are much lighter and i do not need a 629 pound pole pig when i can only power it up to 3600 watts, and even then it trips my puny 15 amp breaker.
I don't know why i seem so inexperienced to you guys now. I really am not. I do not know just tons but i know enough to keep me from dieing. The only thing that could hurt me on the pig is the primary input and the high voltage output. I have the high voltage wire on a long stick that will never get any closer than something like 3 feet to me. I only have one alligator clip, and if it falls off it would not be near me. I did not get as close to the arcs as it seemed. I know what could happen if i get shocked. I have been shocked before and it sucked bad enough to make me use chicken sticks for anything high powered.
Also, unless i was being really stupid i would not be shocked by the primary input. I have made sure none of the 120 volt wires could easily come out.
Right now i have everything disconnected, though, and now i have no reason to use it anymore.
My dad has seen me drawing the arcs and he does not believe it is unsafe, and he know what could happen too. He went to college for electronics, and he knows the consequences of being shocked with high voltage.
I used to be VERY unsafe with MOTs, but now i use some sort of chicken stick(not wood neither cause i know that they are conductive enough to shock me). If i am using a flyback i do not use chicken sticks, i know. But they are always low powered and the insulation on the wire is good for quite high voltages. It stands up to being used in tvs for many years even though there are many grounded wires and pieces of metal that it could arc to if the insulation was not adequate..
I also am near a water hose if a fire where to start and get out of control.
I do not think you guys are being mean or anything though.
But do not worry any more cause the pig is either going to be sold or gotten rid of or it will just sit there for a long time. Not because i am waiting until i am more experienced but also because i don't really need it for anything. If i can ever make a new secondary i will make a tesla coil with it though.
Registered Member #135
Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735
Okay, WHY you seem Inexperienced to ME!
1. You are using extension cords to power your pig. 2. YOU ARE USING EXTENSION CORDS TO POWER YOUR PIG
3. Have I made the point yet? You don't use an extension to do these kinds of things. You go to Home Depot and buy 30 feet of 4 AWG 3 conductor, a dryer socket plug, and real cable connections for the low side. I know its expensive, but that's what you do.
4. Did I mention the power cord? 5. REAL CABLE Connections, not a piece of ROMEX stuck into an extension cord.
6. A SECOND PERSON CPR TRAINED
7. A tripod would be good, I have to agree with that... just in case somehow one of the METAL legs comes in contact with high current or high voltage....because your ballast is on the ground.
8. Mounting High voltage components insted of lying them on cardboard. These kinds of things REQUIRE prep-work, not a fast lash up. Quick and dirty = beef jerky!... remember that little rhyme! Yea I just made it up... but its true.
9. Yea I think you can be safe with a pig, but I agree with some of the guys here that have kids, you shouldn't be playing with this kind of HV at 15.. or 19... and no amount of playing with flybacks or MOT's prepares anyone with enough experience for piggies. They have enough current that they can cause an arc-flash and do serious damage, just put in arc flash to youtube and you'll see that real fast.
10. Did I mention the power cord?
11. I don't draw arcs from my PT, I rarely turn it on because its an itty bitty pig. They require thoughtful handling, careful setup, and prep-work.
I'd say hold on to it, you'll be more ready in 10 years time. Right now I am not convinced you really care about safety because you didn't spend the time and money to acquire insulating materials, suitable cable, a second observer with CPR training or at least a cell phone, etc.
Your dad not considering this dangerous really concerns me, its very dangerous.
And don't think this is the first time I've written stuff like this either, I have pleaded with other kids not to do these things because the situation you're in and they were in doesn't allow you to take a step back out of your situation and look at everything. I dunno if swanny is still alive... or if that's the correct member at the moment, but I have begged several kids just like you here NOT to play with these things, its just not worth the risk right now. You have a long future to look forward to.
Registered Member #152
Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384
Hazmatt_(The Underdog) wrote ...
1. You are using extension cords to power your pig. 2. YOU ARE USING EXTENSION CORDS TO POWER YOUR PIG ... 9. Yea I think you can be safe with a pig, but I agree with some of the guys here that have kids, you shouldn't be playing with this kind of HV at 15.. or 19... and no amount of playing with flybacks or MOT's prepares anyone with enough experience for piggies. They have enough current that they can cause an arc-flash and do serious damage, just put in arc flash to youtube and you'll see that real fast.
MOTs are more lethal by themselves than when used as a ballast for a higher voltage transformer because lower currents will flow.
Where did you get the age figures? If someone e.g. at 16 has been informed enough and has experience, he can draw an arc from a substation transformer if he knows what he's doing and can be sure he's 100% safe.
What's with the extension cords? I used one for my 6kVA MOT bank and haven't really noticed any problems, even though it was running at 400V instead of nominal 230V
I think you're exaggerating it a very little bit, just be sure to have the main power switch on reach (preferrably use "dead mans" push button), use long insulating stick, never come close when it's powered up and after turning off, pull the cord, discharge all caps and then you can safely go about touching anything.
Registered Member #1225
Joined: Sat Jan 12 2008, 01:24AM
Location: Beaumont, Texas, USA
Posts: 2253
Hazmatt_(The Underdog) wrote ...
Okay, WHY you seem Inexperienced to ME!
1. You are using extension cords to power your pig. 2. YOU ARE USING EXTENSION CORDS TO POWER YOUR PIG
3. Have I made the point yet? You don't use an extension to do these kinds of things. You go to Home Depot and buy 30 feet of 4 AWG 3 conductor, a dryer socket plug, and real cable connections for the low side. I know its expensive, but that's what you do.
4. Did I mention the power cord? 5. REAL CABLE Connections, not a piece of ROMEX stuck into an extension cord.
6. A SECOND PERSON CPR TRAINED
7. A tripod would be good, I have to agree with that... just in case somehow one of the METAL legs comes in contact with high current or high voltage....because your ballast is on the ground.
8. Mounting High voltage components insted of lying them on cardboard. These kinds of things REQUIRE prep-work, not a fast lash up. Quick and dirty = beef jerky!... remember that little rhyme! Yea I just made it up... but its true.
9. Yea I think you can be safe with a pig, but I agree with some of the guys here that have kids, you shouldn't be playing with this kind of HV at 15.. or 19... and no amount of playing with flybacks or MOT's prepares anyone with enough experience for piggies. They have enough current that they can cause an arc-flash and do serious damage, just put in arc flash to youtube and you'll see that real fast.
10. Did I mention the power cord?
11. I don't draw arcs from my PT, I rarely turn it on because its an itty bitty pig. They require thoughtful handling, careful setup, and prep-work.
I'd say hold on to it, you'll be more ready in 10 years time. Right now I am not convinced you really care about safety because you didn't spend the time and money to acquire insulating materials, suitable cable, a second observer with CPR training or at least a cell phone, etc.
Your dad not considering this dangerous really concerns me, its very dangerous.
And don't think this is the first time I've written stuff like this either, I have pleaded with other kids not to do these things because the situation you're in and they were in doesn't allow you to take a step back out of your situation and look at everything. I dunno if swanny is still alive... or if that's the correct member at the moment, but I have begged several kids just like you here NOT to play with these things, its just not worth the risk right now. You have a long future to look forward to.
What is wrong with extension cords?! That does not make me unsafe... It would actually be VERY unsafe to use a single cord because i am not near the outlet, and i would have to turn it on and then walk to the pig, so that is the only way. The wires are really not that thin, i mean the will get warm over a long run but NOWHERE near melting.
Then the pig is no more powerful than an mot... After all i am using a mot to ballast. I drew quite alot longer arcs with mots than i do with my pig. I tripped my breakers after like 3 arcs with 2 mots.
I use a large chicken stick which i make sure is not wet before i use it. Watch this probably experienced guy draw arcs:
I tugged on my wire on everything before i used it. Nothing was even near loose.
So i am not extremely safe but i do understand how high voltage could travel. I know i sound like a ________(you fill in the blank) But i just really think i will be ok. I am not trying to start any fights or an argument, i just don't want to be portrayed as someone inexperienced.
Registered Member #477
Joined: Tue Jun 20 2006, 11:51PM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 546
Hi Arcstarter, et al:
Arcstarter wrote ...
I use a large chicken stick which i make sure is not wet before i use it. Watch this probably experienced guy draw arcs:
Hmmm... well! This is actually a good example, but not perhaps for the reason you intended; I think Jan Martis is being a bit of a "HV cowboy" here by using a wooden chicken stick in his MOT videos, some of which show him roasting wood with the arcs at the same time! Indeed, I think even the most safety-minded among us will come to complacency from time to time, which means there's a little bit of luck in the fact that each one of us is still here. What we call "safety" can never be more than a somewhat-vain attempt to minimize the "luck factor" (unless you just dump the hobby, but then you don't count anymore). And don't confuse "experienced" and "safe"; experience is usually what leads to complacency, so it's a mixed blessing in a way.
Obviously, everybody here is trying to extrapolate a general sense of how safe you are from a few pieces of evidence, so some of the specific comments are going to be unfair. I sympathize with you. The important message, I think, is just to be paranoid. Be scared of this stuff. Some of us (me!) look back on some of the things we did with HV when we were younger and shudder to realize how much luck there was in the fact that we didn't get seriously hurt or killed. I don't know when the turning point came exactly, but one day it all just scared the crap out of me! As a high-schooler, I'd watched all the Richard Hull videos and listened to his ramblings about safety, "always keep one hand in your pocket when energizing something or working around energized circuits", etc., but that stuff took time to really sink in, though I wouldn't have believed it then. Just something to think about!
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Getting an old pole pig!!
Indeed, I think even the most safety-minded among us will come to complacency from time to time, which means there's a little bit of luck in the fact that each one of us is still here. What we call "safety" can never be more than a somewhat-vain attempt to minimize the "luck factor" (unless you just dump the hobby, but then you don't count anymore). And don't confuse "experienced" and "safe"; experience is usually what leads to complacency, so it's a mixed blessing in a way.