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Reaction between Acetone and excess 32% HCl

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LAN_403

Seoul_lasers

Fri Aug 29 2008, 04:59PM

Registered Member #1630 Joined: Sat Aug 09 2008, 11:36AM
Location: Seoul Korea
Posts: 115

Ok, I have been reading a rather mysterious article about the production of a Yellow -green liquid when Acetone interacts with HCl.
This is similar but slower reaction to that of Concentrated H2SO4 and Acetone which makes Mestyelene (red-black).
The article claims a substance known as DiPhorone-HCl is produced---> Anyone here into cracking this one?

I have tried this experiment, and it seems like this is a slightly different reaction to one using H2SO4... BTW, both of these reactions will ultimately lead to Mestylene production, but HCl seems like it produces something rather interesting along the way.

30ml of Acetone to 60ml 32% HCl reaction vessel is warmed to 70C--- color goes from clear to off yellow -- to bright yellow, then to orange, then to red orange then finally to dark red.. at this stage rafts of crystals start to form at the surface that are black.

Anyone want to tackle this reaction?

Firefox

Fri Aug 29 2008, 09:44PM

Registered Member #1389 Joined: Thu Mar 13 2008, 12:50AM
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 346

That sounds like a fun reaction to do. Its a rainbow of colors in one step! I may be able to ask my brother about it, as he was pretty good at organic chem and chem. I just dabble with those silly electronics

aonomus

Fri Aug 29 2008, 11:33PM

Registered Member #1497 Joined: Thu May 22 2008, 05:24AM
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 801

If you are looking for fun colourful reactions to do for the sake of fun, do inorganic chemistry, alot of organic chemistry tends to use strong reagents, flammable solvents, and has a tendancy to go 'kaboom'.

Just my $0.02

Firefox

Sat Aug 30 2008, 02:16AM

Registered Member #1389 Joined: Thu Mar 13 2008, 12:50AM
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 346

Don't worry, aonomus, I don't intend to do these experiments, as I'm not terribly into chemistry, unless it has a useful purpose to one of my other hobbies. Which this clearly doesn't!

Chris Russell

Tue Sept 16 2008, 06:46PM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

Folks, I have had to sanitize this thread.

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT, under any circumstances, discuss the production of explosives here. I really do not want to have to start banning people.

Seoul_lasers

Wed Sept 17 2008, 02:27AM

Registered Member #1630 Joined: Sat Aug 09 2008, 11:36AM
Location: Seoul Korea
Posts: 115

We were talking about the risks associated with the production of Organic peroxides.
-- deleted was the posts related to the formation of Mestylene or Mestyl oxides.

Chris Russell

Wed Sept 17 2008, 03:58AM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

Seoul_lasers wrote ...

We were talking about the risks associated with the production of Organic peroxides.
-- deleted was the posts related to the formation of Mestylene or Mestyl oxides.

Unfortunately, most of the thread had to be pruned in order to remove all references to the production of explosives. It got into the thread early and persisted. I hate to do it, but that's the way things are these days. The production of organic peroxides is just not a suitable topic for discussion here, no matter how much disclaiming is done with regards to the risks.

Feel free to repost with on-topic discussion.

Seoul_lasers

Wed Sept 17 2008, 04:09AM

Registered Member #1630 Joined: Sat Aug 09 2008, 11:36AM
Location: Seoul Korea
Posts: 115

ok, sorry.. It got carried away early.
The idea was to see if anyone knew about the byproducts of digesting Acetone using HCl.
The question still remains, what does it produce and at what stages. -- I know Phorone is produced as green oil is one of the final products that is relitivley inert and has the geranium scent we all know. BUT before this what is going on? There is a mythical chemical Phorone HCl which is supposed to be cubic in structure. It is possible?

newbie

Mon Dec 01 2008, 04:40PM

Registered Member #1825 Joined: Wed Nov 26 2008, 06:44PM
Location:
Posts: 2

You'll just get a series of aldol products, phorone being one of them.

Phorone is a di-unsaturated ketone.. it would be fairly reactive to enols/enolates

MOT_man

Sat Dec 13 2008, 08:30AM

Registered Member #1127 Joined: Mon Nov 19 2007, 12:08AM
Location:
Posts: 139

Chloroacetone makes up at least 40% of the solution along with phorone and Mestyl products. This reaction is fairly safe if done at low temperatures - Chloroacetone is an EXTREMELY toxic chemical agent and should be avoided at all costs.

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